I Was Wrong

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Mike McK, Mar 5, 2005.

  1. Mike McK

    Mike McK
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    Hello.

    In the past, I've taken a lot of heat here for defending the Catholic church.

    I went to Catholic schools as a child and I've shared many times (and still believe) that the nuns and the priests there paved the way for my being saved later on in my life.

    Unfortunately, though, I think I was confusing my defense of the Catholic church with my affection and happy memories for these individual people who taught me.

    As I've been talking doctrine with more and more Catholics on another board, I realize now that I can no longer support the Catholic church or it's teachings.

    Please don't misunderstand, I love Catholic people and know some wonderful, Godly Catholics but I've come to the conclusion that the Catholic church is like the WoF movement or the CoJCoLDS, in that if one is saved in these organizations, it's in spite of their teaching, not because of it.

    I took a lot of heat for defending the Catholic church and I gave some of you a very hard time for your criticism of the Catholic church.

    I'm sorry. You were right and I realize now that I was wrong.

    Mike
     
  2. Scott_Bushey

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    Mike,
    To be accurate, it is the Roman Catholic church you speak of. The catholic church is the universal church of Christ, which all born again believers are part of.

    The apostles creed, which generally is accepted across the denominational parameters, speaks of the 'Holy Catholic Church'. It is not refering to the Romish sector.
     
  3. Mike McK

    Mike McK
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    I know. Usually, when you use a capital "C", as opposed to a lower case "c", it's assumed that you mean the Roman Catholic church, as opposed to the universal church.

    Sorry for any confusion.
     
  4. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Mike,

    Good for you.

    [​IMG]

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  5. tamborine lady

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    [​IMG]

    Praise the Lord, Mike. It takes a lot of fortitude for a man to say he was wrong!!

    God Bless You!!! [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Tam
     
  6. Logan

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    I've known many people who have gone to Catholic schools who never really knew the teachings of the Church. Sure, they understood what Catholics believed, but, they do not understand why they believe. I believe it all stems from the parents not practicing the Faith and just sending their kids to Catholic school to let someone else instruct their kids. If kids see their parents living a life contrary to what they are reading about in school, it will have little if any effect on the way they shape their conscience.

    Mike I am not implying this is the case with you, as I dont even know if you were raised Catholic. I just firmly belive that if you were taught the Faith properly, you would never leave or abandon it anymore than you would Jesus Himself.

    Peace...
     
  7. DHK

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    I echo the sentiments of Joseph and Tam. Praise the Lord.
    DHK
     
  8. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    I have believed I shall go to my grave and never have come across a Roman Catholic who renounced the RCC and accepted true Christianity - Protestantism.
    Now I may rest assured I was wrong, and thank God for it!
    I am myself a convert to true Christianity - from legalism to free grace. I know what it is like. I know what it is to be set free, and be caught up and be hid in Christ in God through grace and the love of God.
    Go free, my brother, into everlasting life, you're in Christ now, in God, and before men. Let no one despise your youth in Jesus Christ - in Him you are more than a mature man; in Him you are found perfect, and wanting in no respect! Christ being your Prize.
     
  9. billwald

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    No denomination is without error. We each chose the error that is acceptable to us.
     
  10. Ps104_33

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    Some folks make the mistake of putting out desire for acceptance by others ahead of the Truth. We want everyone to like us and sacrifice the truth for "tolerance", "political-correctness", "favorable press coverage", etc.

    Did you just come to this conclusion? Then in all fairness,Mike I can understand your desire to defend the false religion. If you dont mind me asking, what was the crux of the dicussion that made you see the light?
     
  11. BobRyan

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    Mike,

    I agree with the rest that this is a point of courage on your part.

    May I ask what teachings of the Catholic church were particularly "noticable" from your POV as being in error as you discussed them with active Catholics?

    As you can observe from this board - there are a wide variety of views on a great many topics and obviously they can not "all be right". Which means that we live in a "Sea of error" and are not aware of that part which is "ours" in some cases.

    You are one of the rare ones to see error in your own hand rather than simply blindly defending whatever you believed yesterday.

    What things stood out? Had you never looked at them before? What allowed you to be critical and objective with your own system of beliefs?

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  12. Mike McK

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    No, we were never Catholic. I was just a rambunctious child and public schools didn't know how to deal with me. Overall, Catholic school was actually a very positive experience for me because I had HDAD really badly (this is back before anybody really even knew what that was) and the nuns there were the only ones who could keep me focused long enough to teach me anything.

    Because I wasn't Catholic, I was exempt from religion classes, although I usually went anyway and occasionally went to CCD.

    Obviously, they're not going to get into the finer points of 2,000 years of dogma with a fourth grader, but I really thought I had a handle on Catholic teaching.

    Now, I'm talking to more and more Catholics on this other board who are telling me that there's no salvation available outside of the Catholic church, that baptism is required, that tradition is more important than scripture, etc, and I just wonder why I never took these things seriously.

    I don't think it's so much that I didn't know about them but like I said before, that maybe I'm filtering my feelings through my good memories, rather than through judging their teachings in light of scripture.

    Mostly, I'm just disappointed on so many different levels and I don't see how I can reconcile what I know the Bible teaches with what's being presented to me by these people, now.
     
  13. Mike McK

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    Honestly, yes. I've been growing increasingly uncomfortable with some of the things I knew that they believed but I just wanted to believe that our commonalities were more important than our differences.

    It was just easier to pretend that the false teachings didn't exsist than it was to acknowledge that the people who taught me, who I loved so much as a child, were so wrong.

    Simply put, I was told flat out by a couple of folks defending Catholicism that there is no salvation outside of the church and their rituals.

    I got into a discussion with someone about baptism and they took several verses out of context to try to say that there is no salvation without baptism into the Catholic church.

    I went through a lot of trouble to explain these verses. I posted them in their proper context, looked at the Greek context of the words, showed corresponding verses and passages, even quoted from commentaries like Henry, etc.

    Basically, his response was, "context be damned, this is what the church teaches so this is what I'm going with".

    I made an offhand comment about some other Catholic teachings (in retrospect, I regret the spirit in which I made these comments, but my point was still valid), and it just went downhill from there.
     
  14. Mike McK

    Mike McK
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    Thank you.

    Like I said, soteriological issues, baptism, the authority of the church, the nature and role of Mary, things like that.

    Thanks.

    [qb]
    Like I said, yes, I became aware of all of these things, even while I told all of the folks here how wrong they were to point them out.

    Do you remember that moment, and it happens to all of us, usually in our early twenties, when you realized that your parents were just real people like everyone else, and made mistakes and said dumb things and had hopes and dreams and feelings like everyone else?

    Do you remember rolling that around in your head, wondering how this revelation was going to change your relationship with them?

    That's kind of the way I felt here.

    When my experience there had such a strong impact on my becoming a Christian later on, then what does that say about my Christianity if they were so wrong?

    If I preach grace and unity among believers, then am I a hypocrite to point out that we're not unified with the Catholic church, after all?

    The board I was posting on has a lot of non-Christians who have some pretty serious misconceptions and misunderstandings about what Christianity teaches.

    I was thrown into the position of having to put out the fires set by the Catholic folks there before I could talk to the non-Christians.

    Believe me, I didn't want to address these things, but when you're trying to explain to a non-Christian how we're saved, and they already have some goofy ideas about salvation, it's not helping when somebody comes along and says, "Ohm, well, to be saved, you have to be baptised into my church and do this and that".
     
  15. D28guy

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    MikeMcK,

    Add to that the fact that the Catholic Church vehemently denies the truth of justification throught alone, and just a vehemently proclaims a flase gospel of justification through faith + works.

    Here are a few of the cursings from the Council of Trent...

    "CANON XIII.-If any one saith, that it is necessary for every one, for the obtaining the remission of sins, that he believe for certain, and without any wavering arising from his own infirmity and disposition, that his sins are forgiven him; let him be anathema."

    CANON IX.-"If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema."

    CANON XII.-"If any one saith, that justifying faith is nothing else but confidence in the divine mercy which remits sins for Christ's sake; or, that this confidence alone is that whereby we are justified; let him be anathema."

    CANON XX.-"If any one saith, that the man who is justified and how perfect soever, is not bound to observe the commandments of God and of the Church, but only to believe; as if indeed the Gospel were a bare and absolute promise of eternal life, without the condition of observing the commandments ; let him be anathema."


    Mike
     
  16. Ps104_33

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    But Mike, all these things took place on this board. Remember good ole Carson Weber, Tryingto understand, CatholicConvert and all the rest who gave us Baptists fits? They all basically said the same things. I have always found that arguing with Roman Catholics is like trying to hit a moving target. They talk out of both sides of their mouth and use alot of doublespeak. Nothing ever seems to mean what you think you read. It all seems to be designed to mean whatever they want it to mean at the time or age, or the present geopolitical situation. Like I always said here on this board and I hate to keep on beating the same old dead horse, but grace, sanctifacation, baptism, justification and all those other theological words mean entirely different things to Romanism than to a Bible Believer.
     
  17. dianetavegia

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    A young man by the name of Pope Cleghorn went forward after our second service today and renounced the RCC, accepting Christ as his Savior. Pastor Rick had been witnessing and talking with him and he'd been attending our church for about a year. I had his son, Trey, in S/S last year. Pope is the president of a local bank and his wife wept as he proclaimed his need for Jesus. He'll be baptized next Sunday with a good sized group. We had a total of 5 accept Christ this morning in the two services.
     
  18. Ps104_33

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    Ya gotta love a man with a name like Pope Cleghorn. He sound mora like a snake oil salesman than a banker. :D
     
  19. Logan

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    Greetings Mike,

    First, I'm glad Catholic School helped make an impact on your life. Second, the Church does not now, nor, has it ever taught that tradition or Tradition is more important than Scripture. Ask these certain Catholics on the other board where you can look up this teaching. They won't be able to show you because it does not exist.

    Baptismal regeneration is clearly taught in Scripture and has been the constant teaching of the Christian Church since the first century. You won't find any teachings different until after the 16th century.

    The Church teaches that Christians outside of the Catholic Church are not condemned to hell. In fact, a priest who did teach this, was excommunicated (He later repented and realized his error).

    All I ask is to judge their teachings (and I mean what they really teach) in light of Scripture.
     
  20. D28guy

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    ps104_33...

    Used to? Where have they gone? Were they banned?

    Mike
     

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