If Noah wasnt righeteous

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Salty, Apr 26, 2008.

  1. Salty

    Salty
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    Gen 6 tells us that God was grieved with the sin of the world and that Noah was the only righeteous man.

    Suppose Noah was not righeteous - nor anyone else.

    Would God still have destroyed the world by flood?
    If so, would he had re-started creation with a new "Adam and Eve"?

    Thoughts?:confused:

    Salty
     
  2. Pastor Larry

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    First, Noah was not righteous until God's work of grace or favor in his life.

    Second, Noah was not spared because of his righteousness but because of God's grace.

    Third, given God's work of grace in Noah's life, how could he not have been righteous?
     
  3. Joe

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    I believe God would have destroyed the world through a flood. It says he grieved so it wouldn't make sense to repeat the same mistakes, causing more grief upon himself.

    I don't think he would have re-started creation with a new Adam and Eve.

    Considering most people will burn in hell, it seems it would have been better to destroy the earth at that moment than cause more human beings to endure horrific, eternal torment in hell because Noah was a righteous man in God's eyes.

    He called Noah righteous, yet later on, Noah got drunk. Then Noah got angry with Ham for seeing him in that state and making fun of him.

    Yet if Noah hadn't gotten drunk in the first place, then it wouldn't have happened.

    So I guess this proves no one, while living in the flesh, is truly righteous.
     
    #3 Joe, Apr 26, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 26, 2008
  4. donnA

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    I agree with Pastor Larry, no man on his own can achieve any level of righteousness, it is a work of God.
     
  5. Dale-c

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    It was God's grace as others have said.
    If you believe in a God who is really God (not saying you don't) you will see that God always accomplishes what He pleases.
     
  6. Pastor Larry

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    So you think God made a mistake?
     
  7. Palatka51

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    Amen to that Donna, We need to recognize that though all the world had ears they did not hear God's voice. Only Noah did. Noah responded and did as God told him. His sons followed as they saw Noah's example. All around them was violence and the son's of God were too involved with the daughters of men that they did not respond to the voice of God. Violence and no sense of being equally yoked led to a society that was an affront to a Righteous God.

    If you do the math all the names mentioned in the genealogy of Genesis, you will notice that all that walked with God had died natural deaths, except Enoch, before the flood. Only Noah and his sons and wives were left that heard God's directions. As long as there is flesh on earth that believes God will not destroy men that believe and do His Word.

    God intervenes when society denigrates to the point that it looks like men are going to wipe themselves out. This business of "Global Warming" that many say is because of human activity. We can save the planet if we all do our part. Well the only thing I can think of that will save this world from the wrath to come is to call people to repentance. And if you'll note that even on a site that calls itself Baptist, many will get worked up over doing what God has called us to. Just as the world got into a tizzy over "Noah's boat building" and Lot's receiving of God's messengers, God took them out and placed them in a safe location while His wrath devoured the unrepentant.

    God will always intervene. He will not let His creation get handed over to the adversary. If God had flooded the earth with Noah and family Satan wins.
     
  8. webdog

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    Ah, but Romans 10 states they DID hear. They "exchanged the truth for a lie", though.
     
  9. Palatka51

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    Thank you, and you are correct. I let that get by me. :thumbs:
     
  10. JerryL

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    It appears that it was his faith that was counted unto him for righteousness. I think Noah is a shadow of what Jesus was to bring to the world also.

    Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned by God about things not yet seen, in reverence prepared an ark for the salvation of his household, by which he condemned the world, and became an heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
     
  11. Joe

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    Grrr...I Keep getting logged out before I finish typing my reply :confused:

    To answer your question, yes, I think God made a mistake. If he had not deemed Noah as righteous, and found favor with him, then trillions of souls wouldn't be condemned to hell. He would have destroyed every living thing on earth, though Noah didn't deserve it. To my knowledge, scripture doesn't address whether God is capable of making mistakes.
    Here is the verse again:

    Gen 6: 6 And the LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart

    A similar verse: 1 Sam15:10-11 Now the word of the LORD came to Samuel, saying, “I greatly regret that I have set up Saul as king, for he has turned back from following Me, and has not performed My commandments.” And it grieved Samuel, and he cried out to the LORD all night.

    regret
    1.a troubled feeling or remorse over something that has happened, esp. over something that one has done or left undone
    2.sorrow over a person or thing gone, lost, etc.

    An example- You regret making your son to the point you want to kill every human being on this earth. You feel deep sorrow, your heart is burdened with pain. You feel you made a mistake to such a degree that you wish you wouldn't have impregnated your wife. You feel you have made a mistake.

    I believe God is capable of making mistakes within certain perimeters. As you know, his knowledge of the future is limited. He foreknows some events, others he does not. Yet it's all within his will. Sort of like how God doesn't lie (Titus 1:2). I believe he has the capability to lie, but chooses not to allow himself to possess that capability. He chooses to allow himself the ability to make mistakes within set perimeters.
     
    #11 Joe, Apr 26, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 26, 2008
  12. Pastor Larry

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    Wow ... Wow ... Wow

    No, I don't know that. The Bible says that God's knowledge is perfect and unlimited.

    First, you are contradicting yourself: You say he has the capability to lie, but chooses not to allow him to possess that capability. You can't have it both ways. Either he has it or he doesn't.

    Second, the verse you cite says that it is impossible for God to lie. That means he does not have the capability.

    I can't imagine saying that God made a mistake.
     
  13. BaptistBarb

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    Amen.

    I cannot imagine anyone believing God could make a mistake :tear: How sad.
     
  14. Joe

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    You need to re-read my post. I never stated "God's knowledge is not perfect nor that his knowledge is not unlimited.
    It addresses everything you state, including the parts you chose not to quote. You are taking it out of context
     
    #14 Joe, Apr 26, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 26, 2008
  15. JerryL

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    I don't understand what you mean Joe. How is His knowledge of the future limited?
     
  16. Pastor Larry

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    I read it a number of times, aghast at what was being stated. You did not say "God's knowledge is not perfect or that his knowledge is not unlimited," but those are the affects of your words.

    When you said that his knowledge of the future is limited, then that means it is not perfect and it is not unlimited.

    So I didn't take anything out of context, so far as I can see. If you want to try to offer further explanation, I will be glad to read.
     
  17. Joe

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    For Jerry and P.L - this is the whole thing- "As you know, his knowledge of the future is limited. He foreknows some events, others he does not. Yet it's all within his will.'

    I meant it is all by HIS choosing to know what and when, and all according to his will. He foreknows some events, others he does not. Please , P.L., include all of the sentences because otherwise it appears as if I am limiting God.

    I believe he knows the outcome, but chooses at certain times not to know every detail along the way. We will never fully understand this while in the flesh imo.


    Genesis 22:12, “And he said, ‘Do not stretch out your hand against the lad, and do nothing to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me.’”

    Apparently, God wasn't aware that Abraham feared him until he proved it to him by offering his son as a sacrifice. This is what it says

    1Samuel 15:11: “I regret that I have made Saul king, for he has turned back from following Me, and has not carried out My commands.”

    It appears he is surprised in this verse, he didn't expect Saul to turn his back on him at this moment imo.
    This is why he regrets his decision in making him King

    Another one....

    Jeremiah 3:7: “And I thought, ‘After she has done all these things, she will return to Me’; but she did not return, and her treacherous sister Judah saw it.”
     
    #17 Joe, Apr 26, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 26, 2008
  18. Pastor Larry

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    You are limiting God. God doesn't choose to know or not know. He knows everything. If he did not, then he would not be omniscient.

    Well, no. Since God knows everything, it cannot mean that God learned something there. It rather deals with the idea of cognitive or experiential knowledge.

    Cognitive vs. experiential knowledge – “God desires us to act out our faith and worship regardless of the fact that he knows our hearts. God wants us to pray even though he know what we are going to say and may already have the answer in motion. He wants us to praise him though he knows how we fell. God asks us to express our faith and love. It is honoring to him for ut sot demonstrate those things that he knows exist because it pleases him” (Walton, p. 514).

    Furthemore, if God only learned that day that Abraham loved him, then God would not have known about the next day or the day after that.

    I don't think it appears that way at all.

    You are on the edge of orthodoxy here, if you have not already fallen off. Part of God's own claim to being God is the fact that he knows all things and that is what sets him apart from false gods.

    You should familiarize yourself with Bruce Ware's book, God's Lesser Glory? Or John Piper's book Beyond the Bounds? Both are books you need to get a hold of and work through on this topic.
     
    #18 Pastor Larry, Apr 26, 2008
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  19. Joe

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    I might check out those books, thanks.

    So when the verse says it's impossible for God to lie, do you take that to mean God doesn't have the ability to lie? If so, isn't that limiting God?

    Seems to me he could lie if he chose to, but has decided to place restrictions upon this area of his life. Since he is God, he can do so
     
  20. webdog

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    Joe, God can't do anything that goes against His character. He cannot sin, since sin goes against His character.

    As far as His knowledge, He is omniscient...He knows all. Now, how He so chooses to deal with his creation within and outside the confines of time is another thing. We know that Jesus knew not the hour of His return while on earth. This is one of the instances He chose NOT to know something within time. Him being sorry He made man can be another instance of this. It's a mystery how an infinite God deals with His finite creation.
     

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