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Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Stanedglass, Aug 11, 2009.
Lets start one! Care to explain?
No, I won't argue over something such as this. It isn't a topic for debate. It's a very serious issue. An issue that if you don't resolve you will spend an eternity apart from God. If you were about to get run over by a bus, I wouldn't debate with you about it. I'd just express the urgency that you get out from in front of the bus.
The urgency here is that you could die and spend eternity in hell. If you believe that anything more than faith is necessary to be saved, then you will die and go to hell. Don't debate about it...get yourself right.
But what if I have faith and choose to live totally contrary to the word of God?
I believe in God, God I'm a sinner, will you save me? According to some that's salvation
Faith Caused Noah to build a boat, But what if he would have not gotten on board?
True Faith will motivate us into the area of obedience!
The object of Noah's faith was not in the building of a boat.
The object of his faith was in God.
Noah found grace in the sight of the Lord.
He would have been saved (spiritually) had he been obedient or not, because his faith was in God. Man may destroy my body, but they cannot destroy my soul. I am eternally secure in the hand of God, for he has given me the gift of eternal life which can never be taken away. Otherwise it wouldn't be eternal would it?
Faith has an object. What is the object of your faith?
The door of salvation is Jesus. Jesus said I AM the door!
So you believe that not just faith, but also correct doctrine, is necessary for salvation. You therefore do not believe in faith alone being necessary for salvation. Does that mean that you likewise are damned?
This cannot be, obedience is a testimony that you have faith. If Noah would have believed God about the ark then he by faith would have built it, if he would have believed God and noty built the ark that would have been an indication that he did not have faith in God and he could not be saved by that kind of faith, which is dead.
Anyone that claims that baptism is not essential, whether they believe it is for the remission of sins or not, have not understood scripture clearly. Jesus commands every believer to be baptized, how more essentila do you need to get? As for whether or not it is essential to salvation, obedience is always the result of a true faith, certainly no one here thinks that one can be truly saved and then spend the rest of his life without being baptized and be obedient to God and His word?
If I can state that baptism is for the remission of sins and is essential I would be foolish to think that those who do not are going to be saved apart from it, so that would be damning. In turn if one believes that it does not and understands scripture when it comes to doctrines that are or are not true, these things will damn, just as Paul said in Galatians one.
But it is of little importants what others think, God will judge me according to His plain words.
He who believes and is baptized shall be saved.
Arise and be baptized washing away your sins, calling upon the name of the Lord.
Baptism does now save you
Repent, and be baptized for the remission of sins
There really isn't any dispute about this is there? It is a woefully inadequate and a historically and theologically uninformed position to suggest that believing right doctrine is somehow contrary to faith alone. No one in the history of the church has made such a distinction. Faith alone always affirmed that your faith was rightly placed.
Everyone has faith and they live by it. But naked faith does not save. Faith in the proper object--Christ alone--is what saves. It does matter what you believe because wrong beliefs will keep you from salvation.
Please don't mislead people with such statements.
Hebrews has the "hall of Faith" and with Abraham how was it that Abraham believed in God? He picked up and moved "to a land that God showed him". He also was willing to act upon offering his son Isaac. This active faith seems to be accounted to him as righteousness.
If you believe Christ alone saves but believe you must act on your faith to show you have real faith because if you don't then you don't then are you saved? according to you and the other post (can't think of his name) you may be suggesting that this person I've just described will go to hell.
So...Can I confess my sins, believe in Christ and never change and be saved?
The object of Noah's faith was God, just as Christ is the object of or Faith.
But if we believe and are never obedient than Jesus is not the author of our Salvation. For the bible says in Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.
That's pretty hard to argue with. It would be so much easier to believe The Word of God than twist it to accommodate our lives!
That is not meant as an attack on anyone. I'm just using that as a general statement!
If you believe that you must do something after placing your faith in Jesus, then you are not trusting his Him alone to save you. You are adding additional steps to salvation, and no you are not saved.
Will a saving faith in Jesus change your life and will the Holy Spirit come and dwell within your soul? Of course. Will those changes give the want to do God's work and follow him? Of course. But those things don't save you.
And please don't accuse me of doing something which I haven't done.
Let me phrase it the question a different way then as there is evidently some difficulty in comprehension here: in addition to having faith, how much 'correct doctrine' does one need in order to be saved?
First we must define what we mean by faith. Is it just a belief that you have. ie I know many agnostics who believe in God but not in a specific god and thus their lives aren't affected by it. Or is it a belief that you act on? ie I believe I love my wife but do nothing about it (and probably will end up in divorse) is my belief a valid one? Or I believe I love my wife and I inform her of it by telling her so, and getting things she likes and helping her when she needs it? In which case ( I will most likely not end up in divorse) my belief is valid.
Would Abraham been considered righteous if he believed what God said and Never left to begin with or how about Noah. Would his faith have been valid if he never built a boat? And of course if its the later have I trully added anything?
There's no reading comprehension issue. You are attempting to pervert and twist the Gospel message plain and simple.
Do you have to have correct doctrine to get saved? Well, certainly you have to have some correct primary beliefs. If you put your faith and trust in a "jesus" and you believe that "jesus" came to this earth and sinned, then would you be saved? Certainly not. If you place your faith in a "jesus", but don't believe that that "jesus" had the power to create the world, you, and everything in it, are you saved? Certainly not.
So, yes, you must place your faith in the correct Jesus to begin with. You must also place your full faith in Him and not believe that there is anything additional needed except for your faith in His Grace.
Oh I agree completely. But that isn't 'faith alone'. Why won't you see that rather than making false accusations of 'perversion'?
Damnation is not contingent upon a person being mistaken about doctrine. It's based on one's refusal to allow Christ to pay for one's sins.
It is faith alone. You are attempting to twist things.
So if I believe I must do the things Christ ask me to do then thats not "faith alone" and I must be damned? And therefore since I have this slight difference of doctrine I'm also damned which means I must have faith alone with the right doctrine?