If repentance is necessary for eternal life...(then why)?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by HungryInherit, Dec 16, 2013.

  1. HungryInherit

    HungryInherit
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    I believe the Gospel of John is without a doubt the one book of the bible that tells exactly what an unbeliever must do to be saved.
    But I read over and over on this board that repentance or "doing a u turn" is a condition of receiving eternal life. Then why doesn't John mention it once? I would really wonder why John didn't include it in his gospel
     
  2. Jordan Kurecki

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    The arrangement of the four Gospels is in perfect harmony. In the Synoptics [Matthew, Mark, and Luke] the call is to repent. In John the emphasis is laid upon believing. Some have thought that there is inconsistency or contradiction here. But we need to remember that John wrote years after the older Evangelists, and with the definite object in view of showing that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that, believing, we might have life through His Name. He does not simply travel over ground already well trodden. Rather, he adds to and thus supplements the earlier records, inciting to confidence in the testimony God as given concerning His Son. He does not ignore the ministry of repentance because he stresses the importance of faith. On the contrary, he shows to repentant souls the simplicity of salvation, of receiving eternal life, through a trusting in Him who, as the true light, casts light on every man, thus making manifest humanity's fallen condition and the need of an entire change of attitude toward self and toward God (Except Ye Repent, 37-38).


    Repentance is dealt with in the other 3 gospels.. John's was written last of the 4.

    "Repent or ye shall all likewise perish"
     
  3. preacher4truth

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    You cannot take one book or verse of the Scriptures and divorce it from the rest and establish dogma from these. This is when what we call 'the whole counsel of God' comes into play, or better yet, it always should come into play. Cultic sects typically practice the pattern of the OP and take Scripture out of the context of the 'whole counsel of God' and so do some who believe they are orthodox and such practice can be witnessed on BB daily.
     
  4. Tom Butler

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    I believe repentance and faith are components of salvation. Paul mentions both in his writings and sermons.

    Acts 20:21 "....solemnly testifying to both Jews and Greeks of repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ." (NASB)

    Here's how the NIV translates it; "I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Now, lest these appear to meritorious, I point out that both repentance and faith are gifts of God. What God requires, he also provides.

    I Timothy 2:25 "Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth,

    Romans 12:3 "For through the grace given to me I say to every one among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think, but to think so as to have sound judgement, as God has allotted to each of us a measure of faith.

    Now, let me throw another factor into the discussion. I think the case can be made that those who exercise repentance and faith have already been changed by a unilateral act of the Holy Spirit. It is this change (call it regeneration) which enables one to understand the truth, come to hate his own sin, and desire that right relationship with God. As a result, he repents of sin and trusts Christ for his salvation.
     
    #4 Tom Butler, Dec 16, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 16, 2013
  5. michael-acts17:11

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    Where so many go wrong, is in focusing on repentance as turning away from sin. As Paul so aptly explained, it is impossible for us, in our flesh, turn away from sin. It is an integral part of our flesh. Repentance should be thought of as turning to Jesus as the promised Messiah. Our job is to believe, it is His job to take care of the rest. If we were capable of turning from sin, the Spirit wouldn't be needed.
     
  6. pinoybaptist

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    (BOLD MINE) whatever happened to grace plus nothing ? I first heard the gospel in 1973. converted. visited baptist churches. listened to a lot of baptist preachers and missionaries. rejoiced in the grace plus nothing messages. that was what I heard sunday after sunday from the pulpit of that small mission church where I heard the gospel.


    then, little by little, some "must-haves" appeared on the horizon.
    first, faith.
    then, repentance.
    then, obedience.
    then, this, then, that.
    without them, they began saying, "maybe you were never saved, after all".

    in that small mission church, they began to talk to me about smoking (I liked to smoke then), then about going to movies (I was a karate-ka, and it was the era of Bruce Lee and Chuck Norris and Richard Johnson), then about beer and alcohol, then about this, then about that, then about missing church, then about tithing, then about faith offering, then ...... I began to think I AM unsaved.
    Much as I tried, smoking became a struggle, off and on, off and on.....beer and alcohol weren't much of an issue, I left it, and felt, "hey, I must be saved, after all".....then, movies. oh, boy, as much of a struggle as tobacco...then I felt so unholy, so unsaved, I just thought, "dang, can it....I warn't born for heaven, they goin', I ain'....
    and I left church, and I left fellowshipping, and went back to crumminess....

    grace, plus nothing ?
    yeah, right.
     
  7. pinoybaptist

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    I like this. really.
     
  8. Amy.G

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    It makes you feel like you can never be good enough (which you can't) and so what's the point? I know that feeling. But it's usually me that beats me up instead of others.

    What brought you back?
     
  9. Iconoclast

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    This is correct.....absolutely correct:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
     
  10. Dr. Bob

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    We must be continually reminded that when the Bible uses a term or phrase it is often:
    1) A summary/shorthand of what has been taught
    2) Not exclusive
    3) Must be understood in the entire scope of doctrine.

    So someone reads that to be saved you have to "believe on the Lord, Jesus Christ". Is that it? What sort of believe? (Demons believe). What about on Jesus only, not the Lordship?

    Believe is often a shorthand word reflect ALL that the Bible teaches about our wonderful salvation.

    So put it all together about salvation . . and you have a biblical theology.

    Man is dead and incapable, so rule him out.
    God saves man, only way man gets saved.

    God chooses.
    God regenerates.
    God gives eternal life.
    God gives repentance.
    God gives faith.

    Then man, now alive/regenerated, CAN and MUST respond to demonstrate this salvation is real. The inward invisible work of God is subsequently proven by the outward visible response of man.

    Now all of ^^ is taught about our salvation. But some verses will give just a summary or a piece or a point - all written for different emphasis.

    Put them together to see what God said. Trust the total teaching, not just the parts you like.
     
  11. Winman

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    Repent does not mean to stop sinning, no one ever completely stops sinning.

    Repentance means to turn from a false belief that one is depending upon for salvation.

    Mat 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
    8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
    9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

    What false belief did these Pharisees and Sadducees need to repent or turn from?

    The belief that they were going to heaven simply because they were the physical descendants of Abraham. You cannot inherit salvation from your father, you are not born elect.

    Luk 13:1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
    2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
    3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
    4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
    5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

    What false belief did these persons need to repent or turn from?

    The belief that they were righteous because nothing bad had happened to them. These people falsely believed because Pilate had killed some men, and that other men were killed when a wall fell on them, that this proved these men were evil and that God was punishing them. And the fact that nothing unfortunate had happened to them was proof that God was happy with them and that they were on their way to heaven. No, they needed to realize that they too were sinners in need of salvation by trusting on Jesus to save them.

    This is repentance, to turn from a false belief one is trusting in for salvation. The first group believed they were saved because they were descendants of Abraham, the second group believed they were saved because they were righteous or good enough to merit salvation.

    Whenever you see the word repent, keep reading and it will usually be explained what the person needs to repent of.
     
  12. percho

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    Three great posts. I also like this verse.

    But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8 Yet, it goes well with these.
    What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? Romans 6:15,16 And
    Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole of man. Ecc 12:7
     
  13. pinoybaptist

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    Repentance is not a pre-condition or a pre-requisite to eternal
    salvation.
    Like faith and obedience it is a sign or proof, if you will, of a regenerate heart.
    I agree with winman (gosh !), it is a turning away from what you believe falsely to be true, AFTER the Holy Spirit has shown the falsity of your belief. That is what Scripture signifies.
    When those Jews who believed asked, "men and brethren, what must we do to be saved ?" the answer given them was to "repent, and save yourselves from this wicked generation".
    save yourselves ?
    I thought Christ was the One who did the saving, and look who was talking, Peter, of all disciples at that point.
    The Pharisees were relying on their knowledge and observance of the laws, and their being descendants of Abraham, and did not believe in Jesus as the Messiah, and He told them, "if ye believe not that I am He, ye shall die in your sins". (John 8:24).
    Was it a blanket condemnation of the group He was speaking to ?
    That they were all going to the lake of fire ?
    certainly not, for towards the end of that chapter, in verse 30, it is said that
    as He spake these words, "many believed on Him".
    Eternal salvation CANNOT BE TIED DOWN WITH REPENTANCE.
     
  14. InTheLight

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    In every instance in the Gospels repentance is preached to the Jews only. Repentance literally means a "change of mind". (It does not mean "turn from your sin.") The Jews really, really needed a change of mind regarding the Messiah. After all, they were looking for the Messiah to come and overthrow the Romans. So their mindset was wrong. They needed to have a complete reversal in their minds as to the identity and purpose of the Messiah.

    John's gospel was the last gospel to be written. By then it was obvious that Gentiles were making up a large part of the church. Gentiles had multiple beliefs in various gods and didn't really have the idea of a Messiah, so they didn't need a change of mind about the identity of the Messiah, instead they needed to believe in Jesus as THE Son of God and savior and believe in the resurrection. This is why John says "only begotten son" in John 3:16.

    This is why John's gospel does not have the message of repentance in it and instead focuses on belief unto eternal life. But it was made clear that Gentiles also needed a "change of mind" or needed to repent as well. This was addressed in Acts 11:18 when it says,

    When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life.”

    Note: God has ALSO granted repentance to the Gentiles, meaning that repentance was originally for the Jews.

    Hope this helps answer your question.
     
    #14 InTheLight, Dec 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 17, 2013
  15. HungryInherit

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    Yes demons believe the gospel but they aren't human. The gift of eternal life was never of the table for them. It seems to me that John went out of his way to not mention repentance as a condition. But, I do believe that most, if not every Christian WILL want to repent. Jesus never told the woman at the well to move out with that man or change her ways. But only simply believe that he is the Messiah. It was the same for Martha. Jesus asked her, "do you believe me?". And she did in fact believe he was the Son of God. So yes, it is just belief. And it's sure not a package deal salvation. I've spent my life in the SBC and this is what I've been taught. You're talking about a packaged up works salvation. Shame, shame.
     
  16. HungryInherit

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    Thank you InTheLight. Really enjoyed the posts of you, Winman and pinoybaptist. I think this is a great discussion.
     
  17. Tom Butler

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    Have any of you ever heard this said regarding one's salvation?

    "I walked the aisle...."
    "I went down front..."
    "I said the prayer...."

    Have you ever heard an a preacher exhort:
    "Take that first step of faith down the aisle..."
    "Come to Christ (down here where I am)"
    "Repeat after me...."
    "Pray this prayer...."

    I have. Are there mixed messages in there?
     
    #17 Tom Butler, Dec 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 17, 2013
  18. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    I wouldn't call them mixed messages, I'd call them misguided ones. This is leading the horse to water and making him drink, whether he's thirsty or not. The invitation shouldn't be given along with a pre-stamped, pre-approved credit application to heaven, which (to me) is what the "model prayer" is all about. There is no model prayer. It has to be from the heart of the person led to seek Christ.

    I believe our pastors and deacons do well in telling them they "should pray what's on your heart" and let it go at that. There is no coercion, which is how I read "Take that first step ... " Too often there's a husband/wife, parent, girl/boyfriend or friend standing there hissing "Go, GO!" in the attendee's ear while the invitation is hammered home.

    No one who is not ready should "step out" in a faith that isn't born yet. The invitation needs to be low-key and an emphasis -- particularly when the drawn person gets to the front -- on ascertaining where they're at and if they're not ready, don't push their face down into the Living Water to take a drink for which they are unprepared. School them, answer their questions, give them guidance. But pushing them into the act of prayer isn't going to save them if that prayer isn't understood, much less sincere.
     
  19. preacher4truth

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    Dr. Bob has taught nothing of the sort concerning a works salvation. You just don't understand the truth here and that is to your shame.

    Now, we have a church here in town that preaches your message 'believe only' and they get together on Sundays and have 'church'. These 'couples' go in together, male and male, female and female, and they assure that all they have to do is believe, that repentance isn't necessary, and they continue their practice of sin without a hitch. Note the gist of 1 John; (same author as Gospel who teaches a lifestyle of repentance is the walk of all TRUE believers) Matthew 7:23; Luke 13:1ff and much more. Your failure here is to rightly handle the Word of truth and thus your message is flawed and in serious error.
     
  20. convicted1

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    Wonderful post Brother!!!


    BTW, you really need to stay away from the liquor....you're nose is glowing... :tongue3:
     

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