If we can nationalize(socialize) the financial structure of the United States...

Discussion in 'Money Talk$' started by KenH, Sep 22, 2008.

  1. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    then why can we not also find the money needed to nationalize(socialize) health care?

    Maybe when health care becomes as large of a crisis as the Wall Street banks then conservatives will change their tune as well about socialized medicine. Conservatives appear to be as comfortable with socializing the costs of failed Wall Street banks as they are with privatizing the profits of these banks when their financing schemes are raking in the dough for their wealthy executives.
     
  2. Major B

    Major B
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/6069.jpg>

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    2,294
    Likes Received:
    0
    Facts (IMHO) some of which you might agree upon.

    1. WE will get socialized medicine, whoever wins.

    2. It will be a disaster, as Medicare has become.

    3. We will never be able to quit doing it.

    4. Getting into medical school will be no problem--there will be empty seats.

    5. It will permanently impoverish the middle class. My good friend Gerhart, who lives in Germany has "free medical care." He gets home with 48% of his paycheck, and then pays a 14% federal sales tax on everything he buys

    6. Comparing our (once every eight to ten years reorganization of Wall Street--S and Ls, Junk bonds, tech bubble) to the multitrillion dollar size of the healthcare industry in the US is like comparing Hurrican Ike with 1,000 nuclear weaopns.
     
  3. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    The heat release of a hurricane is equivalent to a 10-megaton nuclear bomb exploding every 20 minutes(www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/tcfaq/C5c.html).
     
  4. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    How many hours per week does the average German work compared to the average American and how does this affect the amount of time he can spend with his family?

    How much less work-related stress does the average German experience compared to the average American and how does this affect medical costs?
     
  5. Major B

    Major B
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/6069.jpg>

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    2,294
    Likes Received:
    0
    The official figures on this are meaningless. I lived in Germany for 3 years, and I never met a middle-class German who did not have a business on the side or a second job, often off the books. Gerhart did carpentry off the books, he and his wife each had good jobs. They also had their own music combo which played, again, off the books. They lived modestly and drove high-mileage non-luxury vehicles. They could not afford to have children (one reason that the native, i.e., non-Muslim German fertility rate hovers around 1.3, far less than replacement level.)
     
  6. JustChristian

    JustChristian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2007
    Messages:
    3,833
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sadly, I'm afraid you're underestimating the impact of bailing out investment firms that made risky decisions and lost. Bush had already increaded the national debt from about $5T when he took office to almost $10T. The FM/FM bailout will add another $5T if they are put on the budget as is recommended. That pushes the debt to $15T. Then you add in the federal graciously buying failed investments related to the housing crash due to subprime loans. I don't have an estimate for that yet but the initial bailout is estimated at $1T. I'm sure it will go much, much higher.

    One thing that a lost of people don't realize is that subprime loans were simply the first to fail. Next comes Alt-A loans and prime loans. These are already failing but the numbers will get much higher within the next few months.

    Finally, I just read this morning that the government want to include bailing out companies losing money due to defaulted CREDIT CARD debt. I don't have a number on that yet either but I would guess that's another large number.

    So, this isn't just another Wall Street reorganization. It a huge disaster the magnitude of which hasn't been understood or recognized by the average American.
     
  7. Major B

    Major B
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/6069.jpg>

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    2,294
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yeah, right, and if we had set off 1,000 nukes in Texas, would anyone in the world survive? Heat release does not take into consideration radiation, blast effect, or the fact that the entire blast of an A Bomb takes place in microseconds. I have some up close and personal experience with nukes from my previous career.

    But back the case. Our medical industry is huge, far larger than the current bailout. I am not sure we can accurately count it--do you have any figures on the overall medical industry's size, including rest homes, etc.?
     
  8. Major B

    Major B
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/6069.jpg>

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    2,294
    Likes Received:
    0
    maybe--I am no fan of the whole thing.
     
  9. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think it's around one-sixth of the economy.
     
  10. carpro

    carpro
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    20,915
    Likes Received:
    295
    Looks like you're lobbying to get on the entitlement bandwagon.

    I doubt you have definitive answers to your own rhetorical questions.

    But regardless of how many hours he works or how much time he spends with the family, it cost him over 60% of his income do do it. If you want a piece of that action, you're an idiot.
     
    #10 carpro, Sep 22, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 22, 2008
  11. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    Conservative ideology used to state that higher taxes would reduce the incentive to work. I guess conservatives have changed positions on that, too.
     
  12. Major B

    Major B
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/6069.jpg>

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    2,294
    Likes Received:
    0
    The reason the German situation is bad is that they are so overtaxed that they cannot afford to have children. They are not even normally overtaxed--they are taxed nearly at the level of confiscation. They are SO over taxed that they cannot survive without under-the-table income.

    Conservatives believe in lower taxes AND lower spending.
     
  13. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2007
    Messages:
    10,466
    Likes Received:
    138
    How About a Trade???

    the dems need to barter right now. Tell the repubs to finance national medicine, and they will fund the bailout of wall street. How does that sound, Ken?
     
  14. billwald

    billwald
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2000
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    Who is "we," Kemosabe?

    Doesn't matter who gets elected or who gets bailed out. Nothing will stop the transfer of assets from the working class to our owners. Nothing will stop the ending of the large middle class in the western nations. The plan is to return to the historical norm of 80% working poor.

    Better get used to it. Tell your kids to get good govt jobs.
     
  15. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2007
    Messages:
    10,466
    Likes Received:
    138
    The Rise and Fall of the Middle Class

    When I was in college, 1973, my Social Work Prof predicted that by the turn of the century, there would be NO more middle class. He said the world would be one big working class serving under the rich. He has since passed, but he hit that one out-of-the-park:thumbs: !

    Pastor Paul:type:
     
  16. billwald

    billwald
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2000
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    The bailout has nothing to do with socialism, just the opposite. The purpose is to transfer all power to the banking hegemony.
     

Share This Page

Loading...