If You Don't Believe in Just War Theory, What is Your Alternative?

Actually, what you all are missing is that Crabby is being entirely consistent in his views.

Crabby has stated that the Bible shows us that Jesus is against war.

Crabby has stated that he believes that some wars are OK.

This is completely consistent with Crabby's view of the Bible.

 

Why couldn't you just say that to me when I pointed out your contradicition over and over?

 

<sigh> What can I say? It seemed pretty obvious to me.

Anyway, what wars do you consider just or unjust?

 

Thank you for that. :laugh:

I was beginning to wonder if random people were logging onto Crabby's account and just pretending to be him - he is so all over the place.

 

Where did you even once come anywhere near saying such a thing?

Do you think that everyone else is stupid or something?

Probably none.

But that does not mean that there is no such thing as a just war.

 

In your opinion what would it take for a war to be just?

 

Do you believe that some wars are just wars?

 

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

Interesting stream

This is a very interesting stream. Working for the United States Army in Ammunition and explosive transportation safety for the Joint Munitions Command and attending church and being a very dedicated Christian, there are some people here that just don't know what they are being protected from and since the military can't tell the entire story, it is quite sad that some of you don't know that if you DIDN'T have certain wars, just what danger YOU would be in.

This is for those of you that say Jesus didn't support war.

Obviously, he did not support giving Israel back to the original people Joshua took it from and killed them all and their animals, too; at the command of God the Father, who is One with Jesus!

I would imagine the God-Trinity believes in the very same thing without having to vote 2 to one?

 

The reason Crabby is going this route--by arguing that according to Jesus all war is wrong, and also conversely arguing that there is such a thing as a just war--Crabby is able to condescendingly look down on people no matter what side of this they fall on.

He remains intellectually and morally superior to all of us knuckle-dragging mouth-breathers.

One day, I saw Crabby walk across a lake to heal an injured swan.

I hope I'm as smart as he is one day.

 

It is not a question of whether or not this or that was is just or unjust. The issue at hand is you are saying that Jesus was against war and taught against it during His earthly ministry. If that is the case, then the only conclusion one can reach and be consistent is that all war is wrong and no war can be just. You cannot hold the position you are taking on the teachings of Jesus with respect to war and then espouse a just war theory. You cannot do it.

The reason you are is because any rational person can see that some wars are obviously necessary, unfortunately. And, try as we might, we cannot avoid all wars as a nation. Obviously, these things are so. Thus, one must either take up an irrational position of being against all wars to such an extent that he/she will not even admit that the nation cannot avoid fighting some wars, or he/she must advocate a position of some wars being just. The problem you are having is you have already stated your opinion that Jesus taught against war. In other words, you believe Jesus to be an individual who does not believe a nation should fight in a war. After all, war is wrong according to what you believe Jesus taught. Thus, out of one side of your mouth you argue against some wars by attempting to use your interpretation of Jesus teaching against war, while advocating a just war doctrine out of the other side of your mouth. The remarkable thing is, you apparently don't even realize the contradiction, and at least one other poster doesn't either.

I have no problem with WWII. That is because I have rationally thought about the whole affair and come to this conclusion: while I don't like that we have to fight wars as a nation, we must fight some. I didn't get that from Jesus, because Jesus never taught a nation how to handle war. I did get this from Jesus and from His bible - man has a corrupt nature and until Jesus takes care of all of that for good at the last day, there will be wars and rumors of wars. I look forward to the day when the Prince of peace brings eternal peace.

 

Did Jesus preach against war? I can't find that in scripture.

I do find where He preached, "give unto Caesar what is Caesar's." Granted, the context was regarding taxes; but in Romans, we also read that the government is there to be a sword.

The problem with "just war theory" is that you can't really argue whether a war is just (right) or not. You can only criticize the conflict afterwards.

We can justify almost anything; but someone, somewhere, will argue with us about those justifications. We may have what our society, culture, upbringing, whatever identifies as extremely justifiable reasons for going to war; but another culture, way of thinking, whatever will have an opposite thought pattern. We take our nation, for example; it takes a deliberation and concurrence by Congress to declare war. We hope and pray that the members of Congress do so with careful thought, and preferably Godly guidance; but in the end, they declare war out of a conviction that it is for a just cause, for the right reasons. While on the other side of the globe, in another culture that raises its citizens with different opinions and values than ours, looks at our decision and asks: "What were they thinking?"

So you can argue about whether WWI was just, or WWII was just, or if any conflict in the history of our planet was just; and someone will disagree with you.

Any conflict is justifiable; whether it's "just" or not depends on the cultural/societal values, and who writes the history books.

 

I agree, I have yet to find where Jesus preached against war. I was merely stating the position Crabby had taken.

 

(agreed; wasn't meant to be directed at you, just for general consumption)

 

Just curious, but your answer is nebulous concerning the United States; are you agreeing or disagreeing with my statements?

 

By the way, being in the Army with a security clearance; although working as a civilian (just to be clear), we see dangers we are not allowed to discuss with the general public and this is sad, in one manner because those of you who do not know the real reasons we go to war have far more value to the security of the United States because we do not obtain that much oil from Iraq for example to make it worth it. It has more to do with the security of the United States and its people.

Some would be scared to death if they knew what is really going on out there and should be proud the fences are being guarded and threats taken out.

But, in defense of secrecy, the Army and DOD cannot tell a lot of its reasons and intel simply because the news media would grab it and our assets would be killed or destroyed.

I was quite surprised at the level of protection the warfighter actually provides the United States and very few of them will complain about their duty, although there are always those who don't care what happens to their friends (?) by opening their mouths. Most of these are young, uneducated and somehow we failed in allowing these few jerks to get inside of our security system, but the actual number is low. Most warfighters I meet are VERY patriotic and serious about keeping those of you who gripe about their actions from being at risk from a source you know NOTHING about.

I am limited at what I can say regarding strategic plans and why, but I can say that you would be amazed at the threats to both our Allies our country itself and its citizens.

Have we done things wrong? At times but nobody is perfect and often Congress cannot understand what the Generals and security agencies are providing them or they don't even bother to read their security reports. I know that for a fact. Many political types are untrained at world politics, and good simply good at local politics of the U.S. voting system and public relations of themselves; usually with the help of high paid professionals.
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