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Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by DaChaser1, Mar 8, 2012.
IF seeing them for today, gifts of the HS, what verse and what function do they perform in the Body?
Legitimate sign gifts are used as signs for believers and unbelievers to authenticate the message of the speaker as a representative of God.
For instance, the most common sign gift manifested through me is the word of knowledge, where the Holy Spirit speaks to someone directly through me about something of which I would have no way of knowing. From what people tell me, it often involves some very specific thing they were praying about that they’ve never told anyone or something that has occurred in their private life that few, if anyone else, knows about.
If confirms to them objectively that (1) God is aware of their situation and their prayers have been heard, and (2) that what I am saying to them (in addition to the word of knowledge) is specifically for them to hear and understand.
On my side of it, most of the time I know when I am speaking a “word of knowledge” because it is like power moving through my body to someone else’s through words (I can’t adequately describe it often than perhaps “fire in my bones” – Jeremiah 20:9). By the time I know I am speaking a word of knowledge, it is already happening – there is not really any planning or thought process involved – and it doesn’t necessarily make much sense to me because I often have very little context for what is being said to the other person. Yet I can tell from the other person’s reaction that something very important and meaningful has happened. At the same time, I often don’t have a clear memory of what was said during those moments, I suspect, because the message was never intended for me and it’s not really my business. Better yet, God is glorified, not the person whom God uses to perform the sign.
When I used to preach on a regular basis, I would find myself occasionally making side comments (which were not planned and not part of the sermon I had prepared) which people told me later that the Spirit had used in their lives as a direct word from God. Talking to other pastors and preachers, I have verified this phenomenon of the Spirit as surprisingly common.
In the same way I believe that the other sign gifts, when/if the Spirit empowers them in the life of believers, accomplishes similar effect.
The best is 1 Corinthians 14:39 Therefore, my brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. (NIV)
There have been 2 specific times this type of thing happened to me while in a Church setting...
hopefully, you have NEVER used the ole 'The Lord told me to tell you" line, Eh?
The Lord ALWAYS would use that operation to help confirm something that he already was dealing with other person on, NOT the primary source to guide, that comes from the Bible!
actually, the best gift is the love of christ, especially towards those of the faith!
Yes, I really don't think it's that uncommon. However in Baptist circles, we often don't recognize it for what it is.
Never have. In my opinion, if I have to tell someone that it is a word from God, then it probably isn't. God authenticates Himself.
The way I understand it, it is a means of getting a person's attention or confirming something that is already going on.
In my case, it offer happens with people in crisis (whether I know they are in crisis or not) and the word of knowledge gives them confidence that God is hearing their prayers and is attentive to their situation.
On one occasion, with a friend-of-a-friend, who later became a close friend, I suddenly found myself telling him that he needed to turn his life over to Christ and change universities (specifically mentioning the one he needed to attend). I was stunned when I heard that come out of my mouth because he already had a reputation as a "serious Christian." I tried to act like I was just teasing him because I was sure that what I said couldn't be right. Furthermore, I had not yet realized that I was expressing the gift of the "word of knowledge" since nothing in my Baptist background had explained the sign gifts to me.
However three months later, he actually came to faith in Christ and switched universities. Apparently the Holy Spirit had been dealing with him about just getting baptized when he was in grade school (it was expected) but that he hadn't actually placed his faith in Christ or was following him. He was simply playing church and was so good at it that no one knew. Also, once he came to faith, he sensed a vocational calling on his life which necessitated a change of schools. He was able to make this change relatively easily because he knew it was the voice of God.
After all of the changes that summer, he contacted me and wanted to know how I knew those things. I confessed that I didn't know anything and that I thought I was wrong. I thought I had insulted him and embarrassed myself in front of all of our mutual friends. He said that because of what was said to him, he could not longer ignore the conviction of the Spirit.
MAIN source of guidance/wisdom/direction though ALWAYS seen/found in the Bible! That is the PRiMARY and ONLY infallible source of such!
And that source testifies and instructs to operate in said gifts.
except sign gifts NO longer needed, as no more forthcoming revelations from God!
The gifts are to be in operation until the Lord returns.
You cannot defend the position from scripture because you yourself have many times opened the door to it!
that is why I said to you wayne grudems error leads to this mystical ,feeling oriented,excess.....you cannot answer it...
Then why do we not see them?
When was the last time someone walked through St. Jude's and healed the children afflicted with cancer?
When did you hear actual, biblical tongues (languages) being spoken?
When have you seen someone raised from the dead?
I think we do see them from time to time. Of course if you're in a church that discourages the use of spiritual gifts and is shuns those who practice them, then you're not likely to see them.
The sign gifts are manifested according to the will of God. (Remember, the Father, the Son and the Spirit are Persons, not forces, and they exercise will, intent and purpose.) There is a purpose for sickness and death. Miraculous healings have always been out of the ordinary. The only place we see then on a fairly consistent basis is in the direct ministry of Jesus and then immediately after in the book of Acts where the Spirit is authenticating the ministry of the apostles (that they were continuing the ministry of Jesus) as the infant church was being established.
It should be no surprise that some of the sign gifts are not manifested as often in places where the church is well-established. Furthermore, signs are given only when they will be effective. I suspect that all of the phony faith-healers out there have actually reduced the number of legitimate miraculous healings since the Spirit may not want people to be confused.
I have, on one occasion, heard ecstatic tongues with interpretation that was legitimate. (That's the kind of tongues in 1 Corinthians and possibly in the book of Acts, other than the expression at Pentecost.)
When did people in the book of Acts see it? Most did not. Paul raised a fellow from the dead who had fallen out of a window during a very long sermon, but that's the only one I remember offhand.
Where in the world did you get the idea that it is "feeling oriented"?
If you are talking about my testimony, it is not "feeling oriented" other than knowing some of the time when a "word of knowledge" is being given.
:laugh:well amyg...it must be you lack faith, and are not "moving" in the spirit....if you want to see it...you will...if you do not want to see it...you will not:wavey: you are operating in the natural:laugh:
remember amy...the annointing breaks the yoke.....komo mo shiki,rondo coco bo sata...:laugh:...can you see it now?????
stop operating in your natural man...let go and let god...its the spirit man that will do greater works than jesus and all the apostles
Because you do not see them manifest in your box or circle does not establish that the gifts are not in operation.
Yeeees......I'm beginning to seee it......
Slain in the spirit--------->
Do tell. Post some reports of these happenings.
I have an ex sister in law (sil of my ex husband) that has been into the Charismatic movement for many years. She and her husband even started their own church, where she is co-pastor. (Blech) She has yet to see an actual healing or anyone raised from the dead. Maybe she runs in the wrong circles too?