IFB and KJVO

Discussion in 'Fundamental Baptist Forum' started by Phillip, Oct 17, 2011.

?

Is your IFB church. . .

Poll closed Oct 27, 2011.
  1. King James Only

    7 vote(s)
    41.2%
  2. King James Preferred, but other versions allowed

    3 vote(s)
    17.6%
  3. King james and other modern versions welcome

    7 vote(s)
    41.2%
  1. Phillip

    Phillip
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    I am interested in the number of IFB churches that are King James Only, King James Preferred, and Modern vs. plus King James allowed. If there are other limits, you may discuss it in the text. I am currently going to an IFB that is ULTIMATE KJVO where the pastor will only allow the KJV in his church. I am wondering just how many IFB's are this way. I do not believe this way, but I go because my daughter, and her family goes and I want them to stay in church and by going they tend to be more faithful. However, the Fundamental Church is their choice, while my background is SBC, but quite conservative because of the area in the Bible belt we are located in.
     
    #1 Phillip, Oct 17, 2011
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  2. Amy.G

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    Phillip, IMHO, I believe that you are attending that church for the wrong reason. We should attend where God has put us, not for the sake of our family. I also think you are enabling your family to attend a church that is legalistic and not following correct doctrine. As long as you continue to attend with them, you are supporting this pastor's influence over your family.
    Having said that, I am not being judgmental. I understand your situation and your love for your family. But as grown children, you are not responsible for their choice of churches. I think you would be a much better influence if you removed yourself from that situation and encouraged them to attend a more biblical church with you. Please take this post in :love2:.


    BTW, I do not attend an IFB, but my church is fast becoming KJVO. I do not like it one bit.
     
  3. Phillip

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    Amy G. What church do you attend just out of curiosity (if you don't mind telling me and what reasons are they giving you for their KJVO reasons, if they are saying?

    Let me give you a little more history here. My kids were not saved until they about a year ago when a Fundamental Pastor visited their home. Before this they were living a very worldly life and they tended not to go to church when I didn't visit. Now that they have bought into the "Kids get beat just because the Bible says so, Wife will not do ANYTHING unless she has her husband's permission (and her IQ is about twice his) and they are KJVO to the point that I was told not to discuss it with the grandkids until they are 18."

    To be blunt, I am sick of being yelled at about how perfect the pastor is and how much work he does at the church and how little work we people who work 10 hours a day don't do in the church or we have to be on our death bed not to show up.

    For about five years now, I have felt a calling to become a pastor for our local SBC churches on a part time fill in basis. I am discussing this with my Nephew who has been a pastor for about 25 years now at the same church. It is SBC. I grew up SBC and I hear you, but before I move my letter I wish to settle this issue. I am also going through a divorce, primarily due to the fact I was tired of being cussed out every night of the week and told I was a hypocrit for my call to be a pastor. I lost an FM station (Christian) over this because it was located near our house and would get into her secular CD's. Among other things I don't wish to discuss.

    My nephew invited me to his church because he says we're all sinners here, but we do our best not to.

    I have a background in radio broadcasting which I think might help with the preaching, but I want to make absolutely certain this is what I am called to do, but I feel no calling to stay in the IFB church and I think suprising my daughter by becoming a pastor and moving back to the SBC and hopefully volunteer to help the local county missionary fill in for churches that either don't have pastors or those that need vacations or revivals in other churches.

    We had a funeral for my nephew's sister who passed on at a young age due to sickness and my nephew preached the funeral and did one of the best funeral services I have ever heard and preached the gospel to a lot of people who don't even shadow a church. All he can do is plant the seed.

    It was interesting that my nephew put some Psalms over the picture of his sister (my niece) and wanted the church to read it out loud. It was very comforting. I sat with my daughter and her husband and I noticed they were not reading with the crowd. I know what the problem was, my Nephew was using the NKJV which he has been using since the church has a lot of older people who tend to accept the NKJV easier. Then when he studies he uses other MV's.

    He advised me to do what he did and teach Sunday school and youth classes and possibly R.A's, well, I'm 54 and I have done all of those and they were definitely not my calling, so my next step is to look into being a pastor.

    But, you are right, I was talked into joining the church by the pastor because I had been out of church for a period of time, but after a few months, I know I'm wrong and I'm hearing the wrong doctrine, plus my ears are going deaf due to his yelling which tends to be the way he determines if a young man will be a good pastor.
     
  4. JesusFan

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    MUST a fundementalist baptist Church be KJVO?
    seems that there ARE indeed conservative baptists that hold to NKJV/NASV?ESV etc are JUST as good as KJV, if not even more so!


    Think KJV is a small minority even among 'fundy" churches, aren't they?
    I refer to KJV only, not those who hold to it being superior, but 'allow" modern/other versions!

    And that church you speak of is being shephard by a false pastor, not a true heart of/from God, so NO growth in biblical sense going on there, time o be ye seperate and go out from midst of them!

    ironic isn't out that what a Fundy church says, come out and be ye seperate, would be the BEST advice to that church own membership!
     
  5. abcgrad94

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    Phillip, I'm so sorry you're going through all this. IMO, your daughter is getting involved in a cult. I know exactly the type of church you are describing, and it sounds like the ones I was raised in. It would have been better for my siblings and I NOT to have attended any church church at all rather than that one because the legalism and hypocrisy turned us away from God as we got older.

    Any church, not just IFB, that tries to dictate extra-Biblical areas in your life, that condemns anyone for disagreeing with the pastor or questioning him, that raises the pastor to the position of "God" by mindlessly letting him control minute aspects of their lives, is a cult. Church isn't about the PASTOR and his opinions, it's about Christ and how we honor HIM.

    My husband (a pastor) prefers to use the KJV in our church for all teaching and preaching as the main text. This is for continuity purposes and personal preference. He requests this in humility, not demanding it or telling others they cannot bring another version into the church building. The Bible was around long before King James came on the scene!
     
  6. Phillip

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    After being there a while, I am seeing the light very clearly. I had no idea that a Baptist Church could be so legalistic and the pastor makes the calls as what is allowed and what is not. I cannot say the people are not nice, but it is an extremely small group (30 or so for Sunday) and those who visit and stay seem to come from Arkansas from a school that is not accredited by the state because (in their opinion) they will be controlled what they teach by the state. It is a Bible College (according to the Pastor) and several have visited the church to preach and sadly they couldn't stand against a SBC trained pastor, and each is KJVO and that is a main topic of every sermon.

    I'm afraid my daughter has bought into it so much that she believes what she hears and she is stubborn and does not want to hear a negative word about her church because the pastor teaches that the devil is attacking the church when someone talks about their theology because they are the only correct church in town; although he is not sure about another fundy church in town. He calls all SBC's liberal, but then he took me out to eat and asked me what they preached. It seems like he draws the line whether they are liberal or not with "Do they have drums on the stage" An electric keyboard is fine and so is modern music."

    The KJVO is a major liberal issue if it is not adhered to because it actually corrects the Greek and Hebrew because it has been around so LONG. I think they ought to look at the Vulgate if they want length of time.

    The church came directly from John the Baptist because the King James says he is a Baptist so he was the first Fundamental Baptist.

    They also worship Israel, not realizing that I have been to Israel on occasion and found it to be a "party" country in which the military likes to have shore leave due to the number of clubs and the amount of atheism. This shocked the preacher when I told him this. He doesn't realize the only churches allowed in Israel are Orthodox Jewish Churches and when they get their license, most go liberal even though they have to lie about their conservative leanings when they begin. Christian Churches are not allowed by the state; so if there are Christian churches they are House churches and very small. The church even flies an Israeli flag next to the American Flag.

    Yes, it is obviously a cult of which I need to bail out one way or the other and let my daughter make her own decisions. I also get tired of him telling the people they need to use a belt on their kids and one child about five went into the sound room and the pastor flat told the mother to spank her. He contratulated my daughter and her husband for straightening up their boys. They are yelled at and whipped on a daily basis. The oldest who is seven loves to stay with me in my trailer because it is like camping out and he does what I ask by positive feedback rather than beating him. The pastor says this "time out" business is of the devil.

    Interesting, the more I tell the more theology I disagree with. Maybe I should have made a list a long time ago.
     
  7. InTheLight

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    I answered KJV Only as my IFB church believes the Textus Receptus is superior and the Alexandrian texts inferior and corrupt. They play the "these verses are missing from the NIV game" which of course begs the question that the TR is the superior source text.

    I know the pastor preaches out of the KJV exclusively and they have tracts laid out on the literature table that denigrate the NIV, plus they just had a short Sunday School theme about which Bible is the sharper sword--the KJV or the NIV? (I didn't attend.) Hopefully, this is as far as the pastor will take this issue. If it becomes an obsession I'll have to say something and possibly move along to another church.

    I'm not sure where they stand on the NKJV, but I'd guess they would be against it.
     
    #7 InTheLight, Oct 17, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 17, 2011
  8. SaggyWoman

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    OOPs. I don't attend an IFB church, but I accidentally answered.
     
  9. Don

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    Philip, seems to me that all you can do is, like you mentioned about your nephew, "plant the seed."

    It's a shame that many pastors feel they have to put a yoke on our folks that wasn't intended; and how they turn out to be like the Pharisee instead of the Publican.

    But recognize that your daughter and family are new, and sometimes new Christians are like our own young children; they respond to limits and "we're better than others because...." It takes a while, as Dr. Bob, myself, and many others can attest, to understand this liberty that we're actually saved unto.

    Just keep planting seeds, and keep loving them.

    BTW: Sent you a private message.
     
  10. Winman

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    My church is an IFB church and King James only. I chose to be KJO over 30 years ago on my own, I won't attend a church that uses something else, so this was not forced on me.
     
  11. seekingthetruth

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    The IFB church I attend is not legalistic.

    Most everybody there uses KJV, but it not required. (Or preached that you should use it only)

    Most of the women wear dresses, but it is not required. (Or preached)

    If my pastor saw me beating my child I am quite sure he would take a 2x4 to me.

    We do believe the man is the head of the household, just as the Bible teaches. However, we also stress that husband's are commanded to love and respect their wives.

    Our pastor is not a dictator and does not hold his authority over our heads.

    We are Independent, and fundamental, and most definately Baptist, but we are NOT legalistic. We care more about people's souls than what they are wearing.

    It sounds like you attend a church modeled after the teachings of Jack Hyles, and too many times those churches are the example that people see, and therefore they think that all IFB churches are like that.

    Well, they are not. And I pray you will find one that is not.

    John
     
  12. Luke2427

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    You can take one of those votes off of the last option because I am not IFB. But I could not see the results unless I voted, so I voted.

    This pole supports the notion that IFB is not as moderate as some would have us believe.
     
  13. FundyPat

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    My Church uses KJV. But they're not of the Ruckman stripe.

    Neither am I.
     
  14. JesusFan

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    Would that mean that you and your church would be "KJV preferred?"
     
  15. Phillip

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    It is interesting that I have noted more than once a pastor who claims to be KJVO or KJV Preferred to read from the KJV and then say "That mean. . . " and their quotation is either coincidentally or not they will quote the NIV. A few I know are NOT coincidental because of the complexity of the verse they explain is a direct quote and you wouldn't catch them dead letting a person know they have an NIV. Of course, there is the pastor who is KJVO that we have now who says he must know what the enemy is printing so he has a whole shelf full of modern versions. I wonder why he doesn't have a copy of the Koran or even some rock and roll to listen to (one of his pet peeves is that churches are now using drums, other instruments are okay, he draws the limit on drums ;-)
     
  16. InTheLight

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    Very interesting. I'll have to watch for this practice of clarifying the KJV by quoting the NIV in the future.

    Other things I've noticed about churches that use the KJV over the years:

    1. The pastor sometimes has a hard time reading the text, frequently stumbling or needing to back up and start a phrase over again. Try Luke 14:8-10 or John 4:31-33.

    2. Praying in Olde English. Ex: "Father we thank thee that thou hast gathered us in thy house this morning to worship thee.." What's up wit that?
     
  17. Phillip

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    I'm going to move this up and see if we can get more votes. Please vote, I would like a larger cross-section. This looks like 50/50 and I don't think that is a good number. Would you please vote? :thumbs:
     
  18. jbh28

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    It says the poll is closed.


    My church uses the KJV exclusively for all preaching and teaching. There are some that would be KJV only/preferred. They only use the KJV, but don't know much about the version debate. They may have heard a few things here and there, but not much. My pastor reads the NKJV for his daily reading. I use the ESV. We try to not allow the issue to get brought up as it would not be edifying.
     
  19. Phillip

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    This very well may be closed. Since I am a moderator I might have been able to post, but obviously you posted on it so I don't know why it would say closed if you can still post. Oh well, consider it closed then, we probably won't get too many more responses anyway. Since the church I have been attending is VERY, VERY legalistic and the pastor brings up the fact the KJV Bible has every word, period and comma that is perfect at least five to six times per sermon, I was wondering if this was normal.

    I don't have problem with KJV Preferred at all. I do have a problem with KJVO that is so perfect it has corrected the original manuscripts that were written by the authors which had mistakes. This is quite extreme and I am fairly new to fundamentalism "as such" because our SBC churches are quite conservative in this area and many of the smaller ones are KJV preferred, but its not forced down the members throat like the church I am attending. I think the pastor means well, he has just read too much Riplinger (who he quotes from at the pulpit) and will not allow modern versions in the building, since they are written by Satan. (His words not mine.)

    I seem to hear a lot of fundamentalist churches who seem to be almost line for line the beliefs of the conservative SBC churches I grew up in and if it is not in the Bible it does not get listed in our "statement-of-beliefs". In the fundamentalist church I'm in the King James is the only Perfect Word of God written is the KJV is the first line in the belief statements.

    Our pastor actually got to talking to one missionary from China and told him if the Chinese Bible wasn't translated "word-for-word" from the KJV, then it was Satanic. I could tell the missionary felt caught in a corner and he just tried to explain that translation cannot be word-for-word between any two languages.

    I simply wanted to know just how far the typical fundamentalist church goes with issues like this that are not found specifically in the Bible, such as (1) Thou Shalt Only Use The King James Bible. as a Biblical law. One other fundamentalist church in our area which our pastor calls liberal uses the SBC statement of faith with its list of scripture references as its own statement-of-faith. I know there are liberal SBC churches, but we are in a strong conservative area and still considered part of the Bible belt so most churches that claim to be Baptist are pretty straight laced regardless of fundamentalist or SBC and most will take letters from each other's membership.
     
  20. jbh28

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    To vote in the poll is closed, not the discussion part.
     

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