I'm Not Sensative, Just Working at Being Spiritually Sensible!

Discussion in 'All Other Discussions' started by righteousdude2, Mar 13, 2012.

  1. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2
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    I would like to explain to my fellow board members, that my running battle with iconoclast, p4t and Amy was not one that came down to me be over sensitive and unable to debate. I do not like to debate others, because in the end, no one can truly walk away a winner. Feeling s get hurt, and sometimes anger rears its ugly head, for which I have spent today repenting for, and trying to summon the right words to post here.

    As I've said so many times, in the past, and will continue to say in the days before us, when I post my views, I am not looking to argue, debate, or even try to pursuade any one else on the board to believe as I believe.

    I have certain beliefs (based on personal experiences, because I've beent here and seen some supernatural events that can't be explained other than it being the Shekinah glory and presence of God Himself) that may not be in line with the majority of those on this board, but in the end, it shouldn't matter, because in my theology all that is important is that a person has come to Jesus, confessed their sins, accepted Him as Savior, folowed Him in water baptism, and are on a path that leads them to personal growth in their understanding of Jesus and the Love of the Father.

    I have never, and never will, insist that anyone be baptized in the Holy Ghost in such a way that they manifest the certain gifts, or even the same gifts I may hold to and manifest. In fact, I like to keep my gifts to myself, because I believe that while the gifts are many, and that while God imparts to everyone gifts (it is up to them personally to grow in their understanding of the gifts and their willingness to yield to the Holy Ghost), those gifts and the measure of how those gifts will be manifested, is solely up to God, i.e., wisdom may be imparted to one person in great amounts, while another person may have limited wisdom, but no less have wisdom.

    I do not pretend to understand to know why some are given greater portions, or even a greater number of gifts, while others lesser portions or a lesser number of gifts, but I do believe that regardless of the portion or the number of gifts, a person has, it is all given by the same Holy Ghost, and He uses what He has imparted to manifest and make known Gods awesome power and presence in this world.

    Finally, I do believe that there is "the" gift of the Holy Ghost (Acts 2:38); and then there are the gifts of the Holy Ghost as seen hear in 1 Corinthians 12:7-11 However, when the gift of the Holy Ghost is given to each of us, with it comes the gifts, and some gifts are for a season, while others are for longer than a season. And like the above Scripture says, “the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. But the one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.”

    Here are some excellent on-line teachings, but it should be noted that because I have shared these teaching, I do not endorse everything, nor do I encourage any of you to partake of anything presented in these teachings as anything more than ideas and principles about the Holy Ghost as seen from the perspective of two different individuals. All teachings are meant to widen our perspectives and to broaden of the knowledge base of His will for our life as He points us in the right direction along that path.

    In fact, the ideas presented in these above teachings are not to be seen as the Gospel according to these men, or according to myself, but rather just more ideas that could be part of the greater puzzle, such as those being presented by Iconoclast, p4t, or Amy and others in this EXCELLENT thread.

    Everything I noted above is simply my opinion, and as I grow in Him, my base of theology is subject to change and grow, as He points out errors and misunderstandings that I may have gleaned to at an earlier time in my live.

    This is what many theologians term the process of Santification. Like each of you, I am constantly in a state of flux, being subjected to change and growth, as He is truly the potter, and I am nothing more than a moistened lump of clay, subject to being broken and remolded along life's way in order to be more of a vessel that brings Him pleasure and a vessel that can be used to lift Him up along the path I travel.
    SEE:http://www.christiancourier.com/articles/715-what-is-the-gift-of-the-holy-spirit-in-acts-2-38

    -OR-
    http://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com/what-are-gifts-of-the-spirit-a-bible-study/

    AGAIN - I am not posting this with the idea of drawing out anyone in debate. I am simply trying to share what's on my heart and spirit, and because some of what I believe is subjective in nature, I cannot offer any Scriptural base for what I've been party to, other to say, it was real (to me) and it had God stamped all over it.

    What happened to Saul on the road to Tarsus, had very little Scriptura; base for him, or anyone else, to draw comparison to. In fact, everything he was subjected to when he ran into Jesus, was all subjective in nature, and the church had to simply trust that they saw in Paul, when he started his ministry for the Gospel, was truly the Shekinah presence and glory of God upon him. There were those in the new church who didn't trust Paul, and there were those who held to Peter and others, rather than Paul, but that didn't make Paul any less the Apostle he claimed and proved himself to be.

    What I'm saying is that God is still God, and He is going to do things that are outside of Scripture, and it is up to us to prayerfully seek and see if it was of God. That is what I've done, and I am positive that the things I've been part and parcel to were of God, and that is why I've come this far in live and ministry. does that mean you have to do as me. No way. I just ask that you allow me to be, and to trust that I am not going to be caught up in error any more than you may be, from time to time.

    God bless....
     
    #1 righteousdude2, Mar 13, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2012
  2. Amy.G

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    If you don't want to debate, that is fine, but don't post in the Debate section of the board. This section is specifically for debate.

    Yes, you are trying to persuade others to agree with your view. We all are.


    The devil is also supernatural and comes to deceive. Not every supernatural thing is the "shekinah glory" of God. Satan comes as an angel of light and many are deceived by him. As powerful as experiences may be, if they don't align with scripture, they are wrong.

    Right here you have disobeyed scripture because the gifts of the Spirit are for the edification of all.

    1 Cor 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:

    If you claim a private prayer language that is for you alone, it certainly does not benefit ALL. Therefore, you are being disobedient.






    It certainly is and it does not align with scripture.






    Then you posted it in the wrong section of the board because this is the debate section and you will get a debate.

    You are not Paul, nor an apostle.

    And that is your biggest mistake. God does NOT do things outside of His word.
     
  3. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Amy... Amazing, how did you get sooo smart? :thumbs:
     
  4. matt wade

    matt wade
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    I must have missed the thread that spawned this one. I take it it went something like:

    1. Dude posts.
    2. Someone calls Dude out on some points.
    3. Dude says "hey I wasn't here to debate, stop being so mean to me!"
    4. Dude creates this thread rambling on?
     
  5. 12strings

    12strings
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    -You are right about this, Amy, but I would like to (in the spirit of friendly debate, since that's what we are here for, as you noted) add some alternate ideas to some of your other comments:

    -I think this argument is more complicated that you are making it. Romans 8:26 DOES seem to be speaking of some kind of Holy spirit prayer that helps the individual believer in some way. Now, I don't really know what this verse is teaching, but it does seem to leave open the possibility of certain prayers that are more heart-felt expressions of strong emotions than rational prayers.

    That said, I do think Righteousdude should reconsider the statement: "I like to keep my gifts to myself" Since any spiritual gift given to one believer should be used for the benefit of others. Whatever benefit He gains from a private prayer should bear fruit in his personal ministry with other believers.

    -God saved me quite a few years ago, nearly 2,000 years after scripture was completed. There is nothing wrong with saying God still works outside of scripture if by that we mean God worked mightily several thousand years ago, and he can still work mightily today.
    -Since we are not to add to scripture, however, we might better phrase the statement: "God does not do things that contradict his own Word, and does not need to give additional Specific revelation as if his word were not enough." Therefore when we see any circumstance or teaching that we think might be of God, we should test it against scripture.
    -If A man stands up in a church business meeting and says, "I feel like God has told me that we should rebuild that church in Haiti that God destroyed by the earthquake." We should consider what he says, and it might just be that God wants us to do just that...and that god planted that idea in his head. What we should not do is pronounce the man a prophet and therefore never question anything he says... Scripture still rules.
     
  6. Amy.G

    Amy.G
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    No it is not speaking of language at all. Paul is telling us that during the times when we are so distraught that we don't know how or what to pray that the Holy Spirit intervenes because He knows what's in our hearts. There is no language involved here either by the person praying or by the Holy Spirit. It's one of those verses that charismatics pull out of context to try and justify their messed up doctrine.
    Now that may not seem very nice for me to say that, but we have to call out false teachings and this is one of them.

    This is a very comforting verse for me because there have been many times when I just didn't know what to pray. But when we understand what Paul is saying, then we can be sure that God knows and understands what's in our hearts and that He will do His will regardless of our inability to express ourselves.
     
  7. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2
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    Clarification...

    When I said I keep my gifts to myself, I guess I should have been more clear by stating that I do not go around boasting of the gifts and the works He has done through me.

    Secondly, there is nothing that I have been a part of, or received of God that I have not tested against the Word. Nothing, and I repeat that, NOTHING I have as a gift is not in line with the Word, and it is not out of the realm of what He has done for others in both the OT and NT.

    Finally, Amy, I am fully aware of the devil and his abilities, and for this reason, I test the waters (Scriptures against the gifts and the results of the gifts) in order to keep from doing anything that would be contrary to the Kingdom. It should be noted, just as you took some offense over my "devil" comment in a post to you, I think you are coming close to being offensive to me with this comment. Isn't it strange how what we mean to say to others can be mistaken for a slam, or accusation?

    I do appreciate your very long response. I receive it in the spirit that it was written, and thank you for your concerns. Your wisdom is noted, but it does not mean that what you have put in print is not without error either. That is the human side of all of us. And while you mean well, and share according to what you understand to be in accordance with your understanding of the Scripture, there are other interpretations to be considered, and just because my view of something doesn't line up with your view of something should not negate my opinions. As I said in another post, we will ALL have to wait and see what we see, because you and I and everyone else who contributes on any of these boards will have our EYES opened wide when we get to heaven.

    As long as nothing I have said or portrayed in this repsonse isn't going to keep me from eternal life, I can't see why persons like you have to get your pew seats in an uproar, with the need to "set that RD2" right?

    As for my posting on any board on this site, I can post an opinion, with the understanding that it is JUST THAT, an opinion, and that any views opposite to mine, are accepted, and expected. I just don't see the need to DEBATE any of you on this board, because like I said before, most of those on this obard exist to "rip" others and their views apart. some of the members on this board are more like self-appointed, Christian "shredders" living simply to tear others apart in the "name of being the most right!"

    I DON'T CARE IF ANYONE HERE THINKS I'M RIGHT. I DON'T CARE IF ANYONE HERE LIKES MY THEOLOGY (because I have tested it against the Word, and I like the fit). I DON'T CARE IF ANYONE HERE AGREES OR DISAGREES WITH WHAT I POST (because you never see me trying to rip up another person for their beliefs). ALL I WANT FROM YOU, AND OTHERS, IS THE SAME COURTESY (I extend to you all) OF BEING ABLE TO SHARE MY THOUGHTS, AND NOT BE MADE TO FEEL LIKE I AM GOING TO HELL FOR WHAT I BELIEVE. Furthermore, I do not like to be belittled, mocked and tagged to stereotyped because of my views. If you think, I was offensive to you, for which I apologized, then consider the fact that some of the things you have posted above are just as offensive. Of course, you posted your comments by the name of DEBATING, and I think many on this board use the cover of debate to hide their agenda, which is to humiliate a board member.

    THERE NEEDS TO BE MORE CIVILITY WHEN IT COMES TO DEBATING, AND TO USE SUBTLE, OR OUTRIGHT INSINUATIONS ABOUT ANOTHERS OPINIONS, IN THE NAME OF DEBATING, is not debating. We need to be careful to not turn to saying, or insinuating things that can hurt another. That is just not debating. It is personal assassination. Or, as I have come to call it: Cyber Bullying.

    As I said in an earlier post. Everything you guys post in order to get a leg up on your fellow brother or sister, will one day not matter to anyone. I think we are all here to help one another, not hurt them, and if that person doesn't choose to accept what is presented in your rebuttal, so be it, who cares? Do you think God cares? Do you think that some on this board have the answers while others exist only to be belittled and torn apart and beaten into submission (where they leave the BB in utter humilitation?). This board doesn't exist for the purpose of seeing who is the most right? It isn't here as some kind of spiritual clique, or good old boys (girl) club? I have seen the same kind of spitting contests in churches and youth groups. If we can't be civil to one another, than Christianity is in as much trouble, as our nation and the world in which we live.

    The Baptist way of life is not the only way. While I happen to believe we have a lot of things correct, the truth is, we still have a lot to learn from each other (other denominations and believers, and even other baptist sects). If we come to the point in this life where we think we (as individuals and the collective church) have all the RIGHT answers, than we are in for a BIG fall. You (not you, Amy) may go through life right in the minds and hearts of your peers, but, what good did that "being right" serve, if it meant causing others to leave the fellowship. We need to be open to each other, and that means to consider where they have come from, trusting them to have worked out their salvation, just as we have worked out ours. I do not believe I know everything there is to know. But, I also know that there are a lot of believers who love to cause harm to others, and feel it is their chosen call to drive away the wek and the wounded, in His name. And that is a shame and a sin!
     
    #7 righteousdude2, Mar 13, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 14, 2012
  8. jaigner

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    For the love, please stop clarifying. Nobody really cares, and it's not helping the situation. It's getting to be embarrassing.
     
  9. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2
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    I happen to agree...

    It is so neat to hear you say how comforting this thought is to you. It is great to know, that you have worked out this understanding to the point where it brings you comfort. On the other hand, others see this differently, and as you, they find the same comfort in their view of what this verse means and says to them. So when you come out and say that you have to call it out for its "false" teaching, it does bring a ceratin harm to that person who has taken the time to work out the comfort they have gained from their view.

    Some times, it is just best, in my way of thinking, because the other view of this verse will not send that person to hell, to bite my tongue, and let another view go unchallenged.

    You will say I am wrong for this, and that's okay. It is my way of seeing this, because unless the persons view is going to send them and others down the wrong path and to hell, if they want to believe God has given a special language to them to reach His ear, so be it. It's not that much different than your view, just a different way of seeing how God hears your deepest prayers vs. theirs!
     
  10. righteousdude2

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    It is, isn't it?

    :thumbsup: And I am sorry.
     
  11. matt wade

    matt wade
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    Then stop posting in the DEBATE section Dude. What do you not understand about that?
     
  12. preacher4truth

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    Amy, you absolutely nailed it in your first post and in this one. Great job.
     
  13. DaChaser1

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    yes!

    As being a former charasmatic christian before becoming a baptist, can state that there are LITTLE biblcal support for MUCH of their "distinctive" pentacostal doctrines/teachings!

    paul was addressing that the HS Himself will intervene and allow us to be powerful in prayers to god, as even though we do not know what to pray, or beat down and weak over something, He will still be able to pray through us unto the father in ways that will get thru to the father on our behalf!!
     
  14. preacher4truth

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    No matter who we are, if we are ministers in the pulpit, SS teachers, any type of professing believer, we are under obligation to have beliefs that are in alignment with the Scriptures. If our beliefs are not of this sort, then they are to be rejected. There is nothing to glory in when we have a belief that is based purely upon personal subjectivity.
     
  15. billwald

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    >As I've said so many times, in the past, and will continue to say in the days before us, when I post my views, I am not looking to argue, debate, or even try to pursuade any one else on the board to believe as I believe.

    Then you have to much time on your hands. Maybe you should find a place to do some volunteer work.
     
  16. righteousdude2

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    The Comments Above Only Go to Support that Old Adage...

    ...opinions are like the posterior opening of the alimentary canal, and from what I have seen on this board, everybody has one. Thankfully, this truth has been revealed, because to not have one of those openings would be quite painful and unpleasant... :laugh:

    Thanks for your helpful contributions, and be assured that I have passed your views and concerns about my theology and beliefs unto a specially appointed committee, that I named G.H.O.S.T. (Gifts from Him, Operating both in History and Today).

    I expect an answer from this folks, sometime after the return of Jesus. So none of you will have to worry about your way of believing ever being challenged. :laugh: I guess WE ALL WIN!!!:sleep:
     
    #16 righteousdude2, Mar 15, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 15, 2012
  17. jaigner

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    No, no, no! You can't be sorry. You're still talking!
     

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