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Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Jerome, Sep 22, 2016.
An Awesome reality of our Lord.
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according to scripture signs and miracles caused many to believe. Now I believe we don't see much of this in America thus we are skeptical when we hear about such stories. However in third world countries where believers are few, I think God still uses miracles to bring about new believers. What say you?
I say your pretty much stating facts.
And with that thought, I cant help but to think that Americans have made denominations our god instead of God our denomination. There must not be any dictating God, nor can we blab it and grab it from Him, for we are merely dependent upon His sovereignty.
In third world countries they buy into heretical charismatic theology very easy and it leads to all sorts of wild claims. Might God raise someone from the dead. Maybe, is it going on in these third world countries like they claim. Not likely.
I would love to believe this story. I've seen personally many answered prayers on various mission fields. And of course God can raise the dead in 2016 if He wants to. However, this story comes from a national through a missionary through Platt. We are thus three people away from the original story. Anecdotes like this do not really prove anything.
I am reminded of the predecessor to the Charismatic movement, healer Smith Wigglesworth (1859-1947) who claimed to have raised dead persons but never seemed to have witnesses. He was a farce. There are no healing evangelists in the Bible (Christ never had a meeting for healing), and the promise is that signs will follow the believers, not go ahead of the Gospel.
According to scripture, the next guy who actually performs signs and wonders will be bad, very bad. Read your bibles, and do not be carried away by anti-Christs, not the big one, and not the little ones or the "Lawless One" 2 Thessalonians 2:9.
I'll probably get some flak back on this, but Amen to many answered prayers on various mission fields. And yes, you do make an undeniable point john, about obvious issue of con-artist when it comes to healing and TV evangelist networks...with the most evidential proof of their fraudulent episodes being that you'll never ever hear of them being in a hospital, healing those who are really in need. Yet, all the while these deceivious Christian TV networks put on conathons to get even the poors money to pay for all their millions of dollars extravagant greeds. I just can't believe people are so gullible that these charlatans are even around to exist.
There have occasionally been Charismatics here on the Baptist-only area, but it tends to get pretty hot for them here.
Signs and wonders were to confirm the messages of the Apostles, not to convince, and there is a difference.
If they wouldn't believe the writings of Moses and the Prophets alone, then they wouldn't believe even if one were to return from the dead.
You make an interesting statement Aaron, and it seems that each time miracles are mentioned they are associated with the hands of either the apostles or those upon whom the apostles had laid their hands. I don't think we hear of Christians working miracles through their great faith.
With interest in referring to God's word a little, yes brother, we can confirm the Apostles went everywhere preaching the Gospel, sometimes with signs "following" as God gave witness to the truth that they declared by those signs, miracles, and wonders - that "fallowed" to confirm the truth of what was being declared. It does seem many have reversed that nowadays, and they have signs preceding instead of fallowing in hope (by the signs) to attract self recognition.
Mar 16:20 And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word through the accompanying signs.
Act 14:3 Therefore they stayed there a long time, speaking boldly in the Lord, who was bearing witness to the word of His grace, granting signs and wonders to be done by their hands.
Heb 2:4 God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to His own will?
I hear a story like this and I think to myself, "That's great!" But then I go on my way.
If this happened as described, it is a sign to those who were present and not to me or anyone else who was not present. I have no real way of knowing what happened there. What did or did not happen in a remote area of the mission field has no bearing on the present reality of the resurrected Lord Jesus, the witness and ministry of the Holy Spirit, and the working of the Father in my own life and community. That abides forever.
Spreading the story does not bring true faith in Jesus, but tends to put the focus on the missionaries or the person who was raised. The stories in the scripture of Elijah, Jesus, Paul and others raising the dead by the power of God are there for our instruction and have been providentially set into a context where we can understand the acts appropriately. These tales from the field several persons removed from the principal participants do not.
That as it may be, I still like hearing about my genuine brothers and sisters in the genuine mission fields with those of who the gates of hell did not prevail... It's just something about the love of Christ for others.
3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?
was confirmed - root bebaioo Once confirmed no more proof is necessary.
"A wicked and adulterous generations seek after signs"