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Discussion in 'Politics' started by ASLANSPAL, Sep 20, 2005.
Why not solve the problem instead of making it
all about a political football.
The solution is to impliment a guest worker program, amnesty and more globalist bureaucracy through the (North American Community).
Ignoring illegal immigration creates the "problem". The media then plays it off as racial to create tension between hispanics and anglos. The liberals jump on the bandwagon, hollering and screaming that the republicans are racists. The Republicans counter with the usual accusations about the looney left. This serves to keep the debate between liberals and conservatives, democrats and republicans and is used as misdirection and limits the choices.
Meantime the media on both sides of the border ramp up the racism and keep the tally on causualties complete with pictures of the suffering. The Mexican media shows pictures of the wounded and maltreated hispanics, the American media shows pictures of the wounded and maltreated anglos. This builds until the pot boils over and becomes "chaos". Then the "state" has to declare a "state of emergency" and jump in to take "control" of the situation "for the common good" of all. They roll in force with federal and multinational "peace keeping" forces, disarm the "civilians" for "safety" and "restore order".
In case of any outrage at the incompetence on the part of the "the state" the blame can be put on the local officials and the experts will be unleashed to frame that debate. The feds can cop a plea...we goofed and demand more funds and more control. Then in the name of liberty, freedom and democracy they can put forward the globalist's solution.
Guest worker program, amnesty, and a global bureacracy run by unelected officials known as the North American Community.
This isn't political football. It's the same old plays from the same old playbook.
Problem-Reaction-Solution or Order out of chaos.
Enforcing existing laws does seem a good first step.
Creating a new, humongous bureaucracy should give a bonanza of polical hack jobs to hand out to supporters.
(Raw story exposes have a fairly good history of being accurate, don't they? I'm not all that familiar with them, but they seem to use real documents - or copies of them)
Sounds like Mr. Smith is making some sense. Is there something wrong or sinister about that?
All he's saying is we'd rather wait till the poll numbers are more in their favor before they go ahead with the new large bureaucracy that goes along with the questworker and amnesty plans. He doesn't mention the North American Community but, they rarely advertize that anyway.
Globalists seem to like to tell ya what they're going to do to ya before they do it.
Least that's what I get out it.
He also said we need to enforce the laws already on the books.
If we start there, maybe good things will happen.
That's what they should have been doing all along and especially after 9/11. They want the large bureaucracy, the guestworker program and amnesty even if they have to look like they are finally going to uphold the law. "Bilden Sie Erscheinen" (make show)
These guys already told us they were going to build a North American Community. Now that they've told us do you really expect they'll halt their plan because 80% of the population is against it?
How do they get poll numbers up? Manipulating opinion maybe? Use enough "emphasis" and most of us might just see it their way after all.
It goes much further back than 911 and neither party wants to handle this little hot potato.
It sure does go back before that Carpro. They've been tag teaming us awhile on this one. And guns. They like guns! They just don't care much for the idea of barbarians owning defensive tools.
I got the feeling we're going to see some things start happening along the border. Not that there isn't enough going on there already but, we're probably going to start seeing bigger things happen and get alot of endless loops about violence and racism And how bad we need biometric identifiers to be safe and secure (they love bio id's) and more money because the system is so messed up and the locals don't have a clue because homeland security isn't fully integrated and in control of all the state and local agencies.
Same old plays from the same old playbook.
Has anyone considerd this to be fake? An unnamed source from a hate web site?
No, people wouldn't do that would they? Let's ask Dan Rathernot to do a credibility check on this. I understand he has access to a lot of document "experts".
But, assuming it is real, I don't see a problem with it in the context it would have been written. I'd take it as "kicking around" ideas and strategies with a realistic view of the political environment.
As for as the immigration issue, I think we need to aggressively enforce our existing immigration laws and patrol our border. I don't think we need an amnesty program for violators. I also think we should not provide any violators any benefits of our system.
Yes. It cold very well be fake which I suppose would show the liberals have no shame to pull a stunt like this or it could be real and was intentionally meant to get "leaked" to a Democrat so it could be denied, demonized and forgotten until stuff like questworker programs, amnesty and a large global bureaucracy could be installed. Or it could very well be real and it was mistakengly sent to a Democrat in which case it could be denied, demonized and forgotten until questworker programs, amnesty and a large global bureaucracy could be installed.
Or it could all be made up to make it look like someone somewhere in government has finally finally seen the light about the open borders and the security risks it causes the American people.
But at the same time slyly telling us what they got planned ahead for us. guestworker programs, amnesty and a large global bureaucracy run by unelected officials called the North American Community.
I admit it's tough to decide.
There is no chance that this is genuine.
These poor Liberals have had mis-information dumped in their laps before and they have always taken the bait.
Okay, I'll go with that BiR.
But how can you be so sure?
Them liberals ain't alone in that Rocko9. We've all had misinformation dumped on us from time to time.
Easy answer: if something is too good to be true, it probably is. Think about the title: a memo intended for Rove arrives on a Democrat's fax. Does anyone think that this could happen in this world. A parallel universe, perhaps, but not here in our universe.
Point 1: Rove is smart. He isn't going to let that memo get away from him or anyone in his circle/staff.
Point 2: Rove is cunning. Chances are, if it did come from his office, he meant for this to get out in the open.
Not only do I doubt this, I doubt that article in the New York Times that claimed Rove is in charge of rebuilding New Orleans. That could be nothing more than a mole hunt by his office in an attempt to see if there is an inside source.
Like I said, Rove is not careless, he is very calculating. Even his adversaries acknowledge that. If you have ever seen the documentary "Bush's Brain," this is quite obvious. I may not like his actions, but I most certainly respect his ability.
You are exactly right.
Karl Rove has repeated this type of tactic time after time but it still works for him.
I can't argue with you about that BiR. Rove is a skilled manipulator. It's to bad imo that politicians feel they have to rely on PR men like this. They should have to stand or fall by their own merits or lack of them instead of demonizing the opposition and using the press as a weapon.
This just goes to reinforce (to me at least) the notion that there truley is a war going on for our minds.
Disinformation is not unusual in politics. Rove is a master, but are Lamarr Smith & Andrea Sander?
There are too many possibilities for me to have much of an opinion on the intention & origin of this memo's appearance.
Poncho what we need is honest brokers...I have a
tendency to like mavericks since they seem to think
outside the box and less beholden to special interests.
If I could wave a wand and create viable 3rd and 4th
parties in this country I would...just more accountability.
We need two things to collide from opposite directions
enact legislation to promote a 3rd and 4th party and of course a populist movement.(I know the first part would be tough)
I hope and pray someday that will happen it only
means more accountability. It means you can
nuetralize the special interests.
I think a maverick leader would be open to that
and realize the two party system needs some more
checks and balances.
The memo to me looks filled with political manuevering...when will the American people be served?
As for Rove he has always gone to the lowest common denomenator so as to hold power...he has
worked the system to divide and conquer...he will
meet judgement someday because he has taken advantage of a great nation..he will be judged
and exposed for his deception and perhaps he will
repent like his mentor Lee Atwater.
blogs debate memo via Slate