In Jesus Christ, A New Creation

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by OldRegular, Feb 6, 2013.

  1. OldRegular

    OldRegular
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    There are a number of people on this Forum, including pastors, who seem to have tha attitude that those members living in adultery or fornication, or perhaps other grievous sin, should be counseled rather than disciplined. One says:

    Now it really makes no difference whether one is 22, 35, or 65, sin is sin, but until one is confronted with his sin and confesses his sin it is unlikely that he will change. Scripture tells us this very clearly:

    And the response, not to the Scripture, but the rather long quote above::

    Jesus Christ did not challenge people to get their lives to change. If I can read, and I believe I can, Jesus Christ changed people:

    In the "new birth" we are a new creation in Jesus Christ, our lives are supposed to be changed. If two people are shacking up, supposedly have an experience of grace, and continue to shack up then they have no evidence that they have undergone a salvation experience.

    What say you, the Baptist Board?
     
  2. nodak

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    I say you are absolutely right.

    And I pine for the day when the church spoke the truth rather than tried to keep the unsaved from being ticked off at the church.
     
  3. OldRegular

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    Sadly that seems to be the primary focus of the Church of this day!
     
  4. Old Union Brother

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    Very sad it is. When good church order becomes offensive it is a shame.
     
  5. Old Union Brother

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    This may not be the place for this but:

    I try to stand on what says the word of God and to conduct my life that way. Sometimes I forget the following:

    These scriptures do not mean to uphold everything or take anything that is dished our for peace sake. A church must keep good order and if that takes church discipline then so be it.
     
  6. Zaac

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    Old Regular has quoted someone else as saying:
    [​IMG] Help us Jesus!!!

    NO!NO!NO! If you want to come to the church, come on. But if you are not willing to correct a sin that's been pointed out prior to joining the church, you DEFINITELY should not be allowed to join.

    Likewis if folks are members of the church already and they are doing this, it needs to be corrected through the Biblical process. And if they do not want to adhere, remove them from the church.
     
    #6 Zaac, Feb 6, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 6, 2013
  7. convicted1

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    SPOT ON!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
  8. convicted1

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    And you know Brother Jeff, keeping a church in good working order is a strenuous process at times. When someone, who claims they are, but aren't, confronting them with it would have to be hard to a certain extent. What I mean is that words can be said that hurt both sides, families can have fallouts with one another, etc. It needs to be done.....it's like pruning a tree...if you don't lop off the bad limbs, the whole tree will die. I am thankful that in my almost six years, I have never had to confront someone about this. I was a new member, and another member, who had a viable means of transport, who had been seen at other places, weren't showing up at church for quite a while. They sent a committee to them, after several attempts to talk to them, and I reckon they stated to take their name off the church book. I have seen them since this happened in 2007, and they still show no signs of ever had even a taste of Grace. The members that went to them, they dreaded it like the "black plague", but knew it had to be done.
     
  9. 12strings

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    You do realize he is saying that these couples are NOT church members, right...he's saying we want them to attend, learn of their error, and stop it...if they don't they won't be allowed to join the church. He also says they DO confront their sin, following a Matthew 18 model...so where's the problem?
     
  10. salzer mtn

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    This couseling mentality has worked it's way into other systems other than the church. As a example the court system. People on the jury, if a person is proven guilty, are not interested in the person being convicted as much as why did he do it, did he come from a broken home, was he abused as a child, did poverty lead him to kill, did his mother pay as much attention to him as she did his siblings. The jury all wants to be case workers, as in the first trial of the Menendez brothers that killed their parents, it was a hung jury.
     
    #10 salzer mtn, Feb 6, 2013
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  11. kyredneck

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    How old do you reckon David was when he fell into his grevious sin? I'd say at least in his sixties. But it wasn't 'the church' that 'disciplined' him, it was God:

    9 Wherefore hast thou despised the word of Jehovah, to do that which is evil in his sight? thou hast smitten Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon.
    10 Now therefore the sword shall never depart from thy house, because thou hast despised me, and hast taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be thy wife. 2 Sam 12

    Don't get me wrong, I'm entirely for 'church discipline', I've witnessed the Primitives discipline their own to their own hurt, my point is whether the church does it or not there is no escape for His children from being recompensed from above for their deeds, NOW in this temporal realm, it's clearly demonstrated all throughout the scriptures:

    2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured unto you. Mt 7
     
    #11 kyredneck, Feb 6, 2013
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  12. OldRegular

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    Zaac you have deliberately attributed a post to me that you know is false. That is the behavior of a reprobate!
     
  13. annsni

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    He actually said that they do NOT join the church but that they are a part of it - in other words attending the services and possibly taking part in study as well.

    Note that he does not ignore the sin but instead deals with it gently to a population that has just not had this teaching:

     
  14. Zaac

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    I guess I misunderstood because I read "a part of the church".

    This is one where you have to be really careful. We should invite folks, but we must not lose sight that the Church is for the Body of BELIEVERS.

    I've found that ministering to non-believers is much more effective OUTSIDE the church. People seem to respond better when they are being loved on and they don't feel like it's necessarily about the church---the place.

    So there's on the face not much harm in them attending as you said. But they are responsible for everything they hear, and that's a dangerous thing for someone who still rejects CHrist.
     
  15. Zaac

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    Oh calm down already. :laugh: I copied the quote from your post and had not meant to copy the quote tag with your name in it.
     
  16. MB

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    My church welcomes all especially the lost. We don't try to correct the sins of people who aren't saved. It isn't our position to do that. I believe this is the work of the Spirit. If they claim they are saved and try to join the church it's another matter. We encourage them to accept Christ first. Sinners aren't going to stop sinning on there own. It seems to me that a Church that attempts to correct someone of something they have done when they aren't saved is ridiculous. Most likely they aren't saved if they are living in sin. Our mission isn't just to congregate together but to lead others to Christ. This comes before our own comfort. How can someone be called an evangelist and not evangelize?

    This also makes me think of those who are divorced and remarried. According to scripture they are living in sin and yet some of them are the Pastors. I guess it's ok for them after all, they are Pastors.
    MB
     
  17. Yeshua1

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    ALL sinners are welcomed to attend my church, and we will greet and give them the love of the lord, but once they rrealise and know the standards God has for them in lifestyles, at that time need to decide to change or remain the same!
     

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