In Moderation....

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by ShotGunWillie, Sep 22, 2009.

  1. ShotGunWillie

    ShotGunWillie
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    In conjunction to the Alcohol thread, which this may have been mentioned, what exactly is moderation? Since moderation is different from person to person, how do you know exactly what moderation is for each person?
     
  2. Baptist Believer

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    For me, moderation is one drink (usually a glass of wine), consumed over a period of 30 minutes to an hour, taken with food.

    Wine, beer and other alcoholic beverages are for sipping, not for gulping/chugging. They are social drinks, meant to be consumed with the fellowship of family and friends. Abuse of the gift of alcohol should not be tolerated and this moderation should be modeled for others.
     
  3. carpro

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    The "gift of alcohol"?

    As opposed to buying it?

    Or a gift of God?
     
  4. Baptist Believer

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    It is a good gift of God, like food and other things. Certainly it can be abused, but that does not make it any less of a gift.

    No, buying it is fine too.

    Deuteronomy 14:22-26
    Be sure to set aside a tenth of all that your fields produce each year. Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the LORD your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the LORD your God always. But if that place is too distant and you have been blessed by the LORD your God and cannot carry your tithe then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the LORD your God will choose. Use the silver to buy whatever you like: (because the place where the LORD will choose to put his Name is so far away), cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice.
     
  5. carpro

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    I think that's a real stretch.

    Alcohol we consume is a man made concoction and I know of nothing good that comes from the consumption of it.
     
  6. jcjordan

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    The good is that it tastes good and it makes the heart merry. Moderation for me is no more than two per evening...and probably drank over an hour or two. I have absolutely no desire to get drunk. Most beer that I drink comes from a micro-brew or an import. Most domestic beers are just nasty (Budweiser, Michelob, Bush, etc.) and I can't understand why anyone would want to drink them unless they wanted to get drunk.
     
  7. Baptist Believer

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    You are certainly free to have that opinion. However, the scripture I quoted in my previous post, demonstrates that God affirms that "wine or other fermented drinks" (among other things) can be part of what allows a worshipper to rejoice before the LORD.

    However, this thread is about moderation and how one understands moderation. If you want to discuss whether or not Christians should partake of alcohol, you need to discuss that in the most recent alcohol thread.
     
    #7 Baptist Believer, Sep 22, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2009
  8. annsni

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    Moderation to me would be:

    One or two drinks at one time

    Not a daily occurance

    Can handle life without it


    Those who I see who are controlled by alcohol drink more than one or two drinks in an evening (jeepers - even a one hour period!), drink daily (and all through the day) and cannot seem to handle life without it.

    IF I were to drink, it would be probably less than a drink a week. In some circumstances, I love a nice glass of wine (with a good pasta or steak dinner) or a cocktail with hors'douvres. Othewise, I really prefer an unsweetened iced tea or a seltzer with lime. :)
     
  9. carpro

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    I'm fine right where I am.

    I take issue with calling it a "gift of God". That did happen in this thread , did it not?

    I believe that statement cannot be backed up by scripture.
     
  10. Baptist Believer

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    Sure. And if you believe the scripture I posted, you would be hard-pressed to argue that God is opposed to fermented drinks. In fact, God gives believers the option (among others mentioned) to enjoy "wine or other fermented drinks" to rejoice in His presence.

    Sure it can, but I'm not going to participate with you in hijacking this thread, nor will I participate in yet another endless thread on alcohol where people don't know the difference between moderation and drunkeness, and ignore the full counsel of scripture (for instance, the verses I quoted plus a number of others), in order to support an unbiblical abstinence position.

    If you don't think a Christian should consume alcoholic beverages, then don't. No one wants you to violate your conscience. At the same time, recognize that there are many believers who consume alcoholic beverages in moderation and never get intoxicated, who take scripture and Christian discipleship (that is, participating in sanctification) very seriously.

    That's all I'm going to say about that.
     
    #10 Baptist Believer, Sep 22, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2009
  11. carpro

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    Try to stay on topic.

    I didn't say whether or not I thought a Christian should consume a man made product like alcohol. That's not the topic, is it?

    It's interesting that you make a statement contending alcohol is a "gift of God", but aren't interested in backing it up with scripture.

    Would you like to withdraw the comment? Maybe it was off topic and you sort of let it slip.

    What appears obvious to me is that you drink , probably in moderation, and are defensive about it.

    FTR There is no indication in scripture that drinking alcohol is sinful. There is plenty of evidence that drinking too much is.

    The problem:

    Most people don't know when they've had enough. And even a modest amount of alcohol impairs ones abilities and judgement. There is no good argument against either of those statements.

    Now, how about some scripture stating alcoholic beverages, specifically, are a "gift of God". You can do it by PM if you're afraid of your thread being "hijacked". After all, you are the one that made the statement, aren't you? In this thread, at that.
     
  12. ShotGunWillie

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    But for each person, the type of drink taken in moderation and the degree of moderation varies, correct?

    If my personal point of moderation was the point prior to intoxication, that would be moderation because I would not be drunk, then wouldn't that change with time and the ability to consume more as I developed a tolerance for lower amounts?
     
  13. ShotGunWillie

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    1. Clearly an opinionated statement from a Beer snob.
    2. The "domestic" beers you are insulting happen to be better for you depending on the brand.
    3. You can find domestic beers that match up and exceed what imports produce.
     
  14. jcjordan

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    I agree..their are domestic beers that are very good......they just aren't made by companies like Budweiser, Coors, Bush, Michelob etc....Sam Adams has some pretty good stuff and I love trying the brews put out by micro-brews. Those other brands though are downright ungodly and I'm sure I can find some scripture to prove it!:tongue3:
     
  15. Baptist Believer

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    Nothing slipped. I just don't have the time or the interest to participate in an endless discussion regarding alcohol consumption. The original poster asked a good and simple question, so I decided to answer it. I'll follow up on questions along those lines, but I just don't have time to get bogged down in other things with my current schedule.

    Here's one of a number of biblical references giving credit to God for giving humanity wine:

    Psalm 104:14-15
    He makes grass grow for the cattle,
    and plants for man to cultivate—
    bringing forth food from the earth:
    wine that gladdens the heart of man,
    oil to make his face shine,
    and bread that sustains his heart.

    If you don't like that reference, then you can tell yourself you "won" the debate.

    I have about 5-6 glasses of wine a year, in moderation. I am not defensive about it at all.

    I agree with you on this point.

    Since you believe there's no good argument against either one of your statements, anything I say to the contrary will be wrong in your opinion.
     
    #15 Baptist Believer, Sep 23, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2009
  16. Baptist Believer

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    Alcoholic beverages have different alcohol contents (usually measured in "proof" - in theory, a "200 proof" beverage would be pure alcohol) and the amount of alcohol that a person can handle is determined by a number of things, especially body weight.

    Ultimately, I don't know the answer to your question since I've always kept myself to no more than one glass of wine in an evening. I come nowhere close to intoxication and I doubt I've developed any tolerance other than what I had before I had my first drink (when I was 33, BTW).

    I think something to consider is that the point of drinking in moderation is not to see how much you push it before crossing over the line of intoxication, but rather, being very conservative about consuming alcohol and not going past a reasonable self-imposed limit.

    If you have a desire to get drunk, you are someone who is very unlikely to be able to drink in moderation and should not drink alcoholic beverages at all.
     
  17. Johnv

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    Consuming without abusing.
    If you begin to feel the effects, cease.
    Uh, actually,alcohol is naturally occurring. Raw grape juice begins to ferment immediately. It takes as little as 3 days to ferment into wine.
    Generally, yes. That tends to be true of not just alcohol, but anything consumed. For example, a person with a high metabolish can eat more without being a glutton than a person with lower metabolism. So, yes, moderation of most things is contingent upon the limit of the individual.
     
    #17 Johnv, Sep 23, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 23, 2009
  18. annsni

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    Why are you hung up on the "man made product" when alcohol is a naturally occurring process? Yes, today man gets involved to make the alcohol stronger or better but it's still a God-made product. Are you against man-made products though? I don't understand the focus on "man-made".

    BTW - I just tossed out some old apple juice because....it had fermented. I can promise you I wasn't involved in that process.
     
  19. Johnv

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    So, let me get this straight. I should oppose alcohol because it's a manmade product, but I can have a Coke and a Twinkie. Hmmmm...
     
  20. Thinkingstuff

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    Good point. Because both Coke and Twinkies are divine. One of my favorite lines (which I thought was funny in the context of the movie) in Kevin Cosner's Robin Hood: Prince of Theives is when friar Tuck speaking to the merry men in Sherwood says:
    and also
     

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