In which verses does the NIV mess up the meaning?

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by banana, Oct 10, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. banana

    banana
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2014
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    1
    Are there any?
     
  2. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,404
    Likes Received:
    328
    Based on the overwhelming lack of replies -- I guess not.
     
  3. Van

    Van
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    9,516
    Likes Received:
    49
    I received an infraction for engaging in hate speech when I posted on the flaws of certain versions.
     
  4. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,404
    Likes Received:
    328
    You did far worse than that.
     
  5. banana

    banana
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2014
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    1
    Do you have a link to the post?
     
  6. Van

    Van
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    9,516
    Likes Received:
    49
    One of my basic positions is that "word for word" translation philosophy versions (NASB95) are better for bible study then more liberal versions (ESV, NIV, NLT). Consider Revelation 13:8 where a Greek word (apo) which means out of or from or since is translated as "before." No lexicon includes that meaning as far as I know.
    Next, consider 2 Thessalonians 2:13 which reads "chosen for salvation" in most versions, but some have chosen to be saved. Thus a word which is a noun in the Greek (Salvation) is turned into a verb (Saved). This allows the following "through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth" to be modifying "saved" rather than chosen (the verb in the Greek). Next consider James 2:5 where we are chosen as "poor to the world" and "rich in faith." Here, the compliment "rich in faith" further describes the condition of the chosen. However, by adding "to be" the text no longer says they were rich in faith when chosen.
     
  7. rsr

    rsr
    Expand Collapse
    <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    10,073
    Likes Received:
    101
    You realize, of course, that "to be saved" is not a verb. It's an infinitive, functioning here as an adjective modifying firstfruits. Your opinions about Greek grammar would have more weight if you knew more about English grammar.
     
    #7 rsr, Oct 13, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2015
    • Like Like x 1
  8. rsr

    rsr
    Expand Collapse
    <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    10,073
    Likes Received:
    101
    So the NASB gets it wrong here too? You want to make the text say what you believe, and hardly any translators agree with you, so they must all be wrong. Besides, it's a complement, not a compliment.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,404
    Likes Received:
    328
    The translators of those versions are all more orthodox than you. You are the liberal.
     
  10. Van

    Van
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    9,516
    Likes Received:
    49
    Gee, I said "saved" is a verb not a noun. Why not address what I actually said? I said salvation in the Greek was a noun, not a verb. Why not address what I said. Your opinions about my views would have more weight if you actually addressed them.
     
  11. Van

    Van
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    9,516
    Likes Received:
    49
    Contrary to the thought for thought versions, "to be" is added in italics in the NASB, therefore the reader knows it is an addition to the text. I want translation versions to say what the actual message of God intended. When an addition alters the message rather than clarifies the message, the addition is a corruption.
     
  12. Van

    Van
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    9,516
    Likes Received:
    49
    Lets consider Revelation 22:21. Here is the NIV: 21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people. Amen.
    And here is the NASB: 21 "The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen.

    Here we see that the NIV uses a variant reading "be with the saints" and renders it "God's people." So the reader is unaware that many Greek texts simply read "be with all." So the translator's choice can be supported, but the majority of manuscripts provide a more inclusive rendering, i.e. "all."
     
  13. Deacon

    Deacon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    6,970
    Likes Received:
    128
    You were forgiven.
    They even named a forum after you... Missions / Witnessing / eVangelism :rolleyes:

    Rob
     
  14. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,404
    Likes Received:
    328
    Are you now a Majority-text guy after all?

    HCSB, ISV, ASV, ERV, Weymouth, WEB, NRSV :be with all the saints
    NLT : be with God's holy people
    Phillips : be with all his people
     
  15. Van

    Van
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    9,516
    Likes Received:
    49
    Hi Banana, I have provided four verses where some versions present questionable translation choices. What was the point of your opening post?
     
  16. Van

    Van
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    9,516
    Likes Received:
    49
    Here is another post addressing questionable translation choices:
    Recently, a poster asserted God's love for mankind was not expressed in Titus 3:4. Here is how the NASB renders the verse:
    But when the kindness of God our Savior and love for mankind appeared,
    But if you look at the NLT, or ESV, or NIV, here is what you get;
    (1)But— When God our Savior revealed his kindness and love....(NLT)
    (2)But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared.... (ESV)
    (3)But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared....(NIV) ​

    So at least three modern translations do not think "philanthrōpia" (Strongs' G5363) should be translated "love of men."

    If we check other translations, we find almost all render the word love of men. Commentaries indicate this word expresses God's "all embracing love" for mankind. So yet again the translators choice denies the inclusive nature of God's love and grace toward men.
     
  17. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,404
    Likes Received:
    328
    I already showed you that multiple versions (including your favs) used words that you oppose in Rev. 22:21.

    For James 2:5 "to be" is used in NIV, NLT, ESV, NASB, HCSB, NET, WEB and Weymouth.

    The ISV and GWT both have "to become."

    The very versions you constantly extol go against your questionable translation choices. Hmm...
     
  18. Van

    Van
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    9,516
    Likes Received:
    49
    I have provided five verses where questionable translation choices were made.
     
  19. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,404
    Likes Received:
    328
    And I have provided renderings for two of those references that show your translation choices are questionable.
     
  20. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,404
    Likes Received:
    328
    Others that would agree with the NIV,ESV and NLT are Mounce, CEB, and NRSV --among others.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Loading...