Inclusivism and B. Graham

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Marcia, Nov 20, 2004.

  1. Marcia

    Marcia
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    I do not think we should have any sacred cows in the Church -- that is, no one's words spoken publicly are beyond discussion or evaluation. We are to evaluate their words and teachings but not their salvation. So I am posting this to get feedback - not to attack and not to judge salvation. These words do disturb me.

    This is re the issue of inclusivism. Inclusivism is becoming more and more accepted in the evangelical church -- I have run into it several times. An inclusivist will say that Jesus is the only way to God but also believes that people can know Jesus through other religions without knowing the name of Jesus; that is, they might encounter Jesus through Buddhism, Islam, etc. Of course, I vigorously disagree with this. But read what is below and see what you all think. Even Schuller was surprise to hear these words, which shows that it is not the normal thing that is said.

    The above is just an excerpt. You should read the whole page to get the whole impact of it.

    Once again, I am not attacking anyone, only putting this up because this does bother me, and I think, for good reason. Please read it carefully. Once again, someone can be an inclusivist and still Jesus is the only way -- that's the crux of the issue, because what is really being said is that Jesus, while being the only way, is known through other religions.

    I think this is a timely topic as I'm running into it in the evangelical church.
     
  2. Pastor Larry

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    Graham's false teaching and disobedience has been well documented over the last fifty years. It is sad to see so many deceived by him because he appears to be such a "good guy." No doubt many have come to Christ under Graham's ministry, but he has been openly disobedient and he has embraced false doctrine. It is sad to see.
     
  3. freeatlast

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    Marcia
    First you need to write Mr. Graham and confront him with your position. I did this a couple of years ago and I did get a response. He is wrong of course about this and one day will give an account like we all will so we all had better take great care in what we say and teach.
     
  4. aefting

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    Why does Marcia have confront BG? He has been confronted a zillion times about this already.

    Andy
     
  5. freeatlast

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    Because of the Lord. The bible commands us to go to the person in private if we have an issue with them. The number of times has nothing to do with it.
     
  6. Dr. Bob

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    Amen. I used to live just a couple miles from Billy (his HQ is in north Minneapolis near my childhood home).

    He is in error and I personally would not support him or his crusades.

    But he is a brother in the Lord without a doubt. Think you actually CAN be a Christian and teach messed up theology. Ask any Charismatic. Or Arminian. Or non-Baptist!!
     
  7. DHK

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    AT the same time (whether we disagree with it or not), it is that type of messed up theology and teaching that lead some to believe that he is not, and was not saved in the first place. I would never say that dogmatically, because God only knows the heart. But I would put it forth as a possibility.
    DHK
     
  8. Charles Meadows

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    Hey DHK - do you need some help with that thing in your eye?

    :(
     
  9. Marcia

    Marcia
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    Because of the Lord. The bible commands us to go to the person in private if we have an issue with them. The number of times has nothing to do with it. </font>[/QUOTE]The Bible commands us to go to a brother when they have personally sinned against us. This is not the situation here at all.

    When someone speaks or writes publicly, they should expect evaluations of what they say. I do not need to write or confront him.
     
  10. Marcia

    Marcia
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    I don't want to make this all about Billy Graham. What about the issue of inclusivism? Is anyone seeing this in their church or among churches/Christians they know? I've run into it.
     
  11. Plain Old Bill

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    1Jn1:9 I am the way the Truth and the Life, no man cometh to the Father but by Me. End of story.
     
  12. scooter

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    You might want to check your Bible, you got the wrong reference. Maybe John 14:6?
     
  13. Plain Old Bill

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    Yea yer right numbers mixed up sorry.
    If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.1Jn1:9
    Egg on my face.I almost always check my ref on scripture I have memorized before I put it in print.I should have done that this time too. My apologies.Now I'm transposing verses. Getting old is a terrible thing.
     
  14. Marcia

    Marcia
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    I think you all do not understand Inclusivism. As I said before, Inclusivists will happily quote Jn 14.6 all day long. But they believe that people can know Christ through other religions; that is, they can know Christ without having heard of him or knowing his name. Read Graham's remarks again.

    I am not making up Inclusivism - it is here in the evangelical church.
     
  15. Plain Old Bill

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    That is what the think. Jesus says otherwise.Who should I believe?
     
  16. Plain Old Bill

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    Pardon me I missed a key.
    That's what they think. Jesus says otherwise. Who should I believe?
     
  17. gb93433

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    If that is true it is sad. But I have read no facts to convince me of your research. So could you give us your documented facts you have uncovered along with the sources of your information?
     
  18. Pastor Larry

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    This is well known. You can find information as far back as 1947 that Graham willfully participated with apostates in violation of Romans 16:17-18, 2 Peter 3, Jude 1, 2 John, 2 Thess 5, etc. Graham willfully rejected the counsel of men that he highly respected.

    Graham has taught that a person does not have to know Jesus Christ or have personal faith in him to be saved. Graham has allowed that a person might be saved by baptism. Graham has cooperated with Roman Catholics and claimed to preach the same gospel as they do.
     
  19. Marcia

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    Inclusivists agree with Jesus that he is the only way. But they say that people can know Jesus through other religions -- or that people can know God through other religions like Islam and come to know Christ that way (by knowing God).

    I came across this in a large evangelical church (not my church) recently. Three men came up to argue with me because I had said the God of Islam was not the God of the Bible. They argued that Muslims were responding to the evidence of the Creator as declared in Romans 1. Of course, I disagreed. But they held their ground and said that Muslims and people in areas where the gospel was not known could respond to the evidence for God, believe in God and be saved. (One of these men was a new believer but the other two were not).

    Inclusivism is very subtle because Inclusivists will agree that Jesus is the only way, but they are also meaning that people who have not heard of Jesus can know him through knowing God in another religion. I am not making this up. Carefully read the quote on page 1 from Billy Graham that I posted and you will see what I mean.

    All kinds of doctrines like this are in the evangelical church -- including the denial of hell and open theism as well. Baptists sometimes don't seem to know what's going on outside Baptist churches but they should be aware of this as it affects our witness to unbelievers and it affects believers who are taught these things.
     
  20. LadyEagle

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    James 3:[6] And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
    [7] For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:
    [8] But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
    [9] Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
    [10] Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
     

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