Independdent fundmantel Bible Church

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Mickes, May 31, 2003.

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Independdent fundmantel Bible Church

  1. YES you have done the right thing

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  2. NO you should have kept the Baptist name

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    0.0%
  1. Mickes

    Mickes
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    OurChurch was a I F Baptist church in and area that is 99% Catholic The people would not talk to us we are a new church our church is the only true church in town you could say There is not another baptist church for about 30 miles south and I know of none North We took the Baptist out teach the same doctorine but now people talk to us because they want to learn about the Bible and it has helped us to reach out to many with the Gospel. Our name was Gateway Baptist now it is Gateway Bible. We had other Baptist seperate from us now because they say we have to keep the baptist name on our sign or the church will become liberal with no power from God. But I truely feel Gods power is in his KJV word and not the name. For some reason the Baptist name had a stigma that put up a wall to keep us from being able to witness to people.Have we done the wrong thing? :rolleyes:
     
  2. go2church

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    You should read a book titled "Surprising Insights from the Unchurched" published by Zondervan written by Thom S. Rainer, Dean of the Billy Graham School of Missions, Evangelism and Church Growth. (page 38)

    In there the research debunks the idea that we have to take off our "titles" in order to reach the unchurched. He called the most surprising aspect of the research.

    I have been saying this for years and I live in an area very much like you. I think you will find the receptivity up and down depending on how ecumenical the priest in town is.

    How do tell people what kind of church you are when they ask? My bet is that it goes something like this "Well we are alot like a Baptist church"
     
  3. Don

    Don
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    Or, worse, you give the impression that you're trying to please people instead of God.
     
  4. Ernie Brazee

    Ernie Brazee
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    So if the RCC dropped their name they would no longer be a RCC church? A Presbyterian church by any other name is no longer Presbyterian?

    If you continue to be a Baptist church and drop the name you are dishonest. What happens when someone visits your Bible church and finds you teaching Baptist doctrine? What if you enter a trap baited with cheese, only to find a trap?

    Who are you trusting to build your church?

    We are in the midst of Lutheran country here, and have succeeded in establishing a healthy Baptist Church. We don't compromise, and the result is people who are strong in the Lord with a desire to reach not only our community, but the rest of the world as well. Being Baptist hasn't been a hindrance but it has provided those in darkness with a light house to come to for the Light.

    Does God approve deception?
     
  5. Alcott

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    That is quite a problem, isn't it? Just make the choice-- 'Baptist' doctrine or 'Bible' doctrine.
     
  6. Grasshopper

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    If you continue to be a Baptist church and drop the name you are dishonest. What happens when someone visits your Bible church and finds you teaching Baptist doctrine? What if you enter a trap baited with cheese, only to find a trap?

    What's more important,what you call yourself or what you teach?
     
  7. Maverick

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    I went through this at my last church. Many thougt we were a cult because we were in a shopping mall. Others were surprised to find that in our new member's class we specifically said we were Baptist. Some did not come back.

    I thought that it smacked of deception and dishonesty. Oddly enough, my first alma mater had Bible in its name and now has made it Baptist.

    What you could have done and I have been in a similar locale is do a seven day track distrubution in a neighborhood using 7 different tracts. Just drop them at the door the first six without any church info on them. If youmake them interesting enough they will get read by the folks wanting to know more about the Bible. The 7th day you show up and ask them what they thought of the other six and if they are open present the Gospel and give them the 7th tract.

    I did this and watched as people came out and read the tracts on their porch whereas previously they were tearing up tracts with the church name on them even though many were non-practicing Catholics.

    You don't have to shove Baptist down their throats when you first meet them, but you can't be both a Baptist and a Bible Church. Bible Church can mean we have watered down approach to please everyone. Baptist usually means you stand for something though there are many who no longer stand for anything.

    Be a good Christian and your life will overcome any reluctance about the Baptist part. My Catholic neighbor stood crying on her porch as we were moving out because she did not believe that she would ever get neighbors so good again. This was in spite of the fact that I went to "that" church and had a pastor who thought being rude and crude was being manly and standing for the Word.
     
  8. Ernie Brazee

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    That is quite a problem, isn't it? Just make the choice-- 'Baptist' doctrine or 'Bible' doctrine. [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]=================================================

    True Baptist Doctrine is Bible Doctrine.

    People don't have a problem with the Baptist name; it is what they teach, so if you teach the truth under any name people aren't going to like it.

    Matthew 13:13And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

    Matthew 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.
    10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
    12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

    John15:18If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
    19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    Romans1:18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

    2 Timothy 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
    5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
     
  9. Grasshopper

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    People don't have a problem with the Baptist name; it is what they teach, so if you teach the truth under any name people aren't going to like it.

    So the name is irrelevant.
     
  10. Maverick

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    Bro. Ernie, don't ya know that Baptist doctrine IS Bible doctrine? ;)
     
  11. Mickes

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    Thanks for the honest replies .I was in pray about this for months before we made this decision. I felt like many here but came to see what others had shared with me.This church has been open and closed for 30 years pastors come if they stay two years we are lucky then they give up and head out and the church would close for years. We are a very conservative group if you could call 5 a group. As a Baptist named church every door was knocked on in town at least twice in one summer and saw no one willing to listen. Now we have people willing to listen some have come to the Lord and are growing nicely. As for the question of Doctorine we tell them the truth and deceive no one. We tell them we only belive in the KJV1611 as Gods word and all doctorine is from Gods word, all doctorine is bible doctorine which when you get down to it is the same as Baptist Doctorine from a true Baptist church that hasn't relaxed there convictions and standards. As a Bible church we have not changed our stand but found people are willing to listen to the Bible Gods word but found if they thought it was Baptist doctorine or presented as Baptist to them it was not Gods word but another religon made by man. I wonder if passing out tracts not mentioning you are a Baptist to get responce is not decieving in away. lure them in with some bait then tell them the truth that you are a Baptist. I truely feel in Gods eyes he would want us to put our pride aside and remove any thing that puts up a stumbling block to win souls not changeing his standards however. This area is like no other in America I have been told. Just in the past year we have had 5 Baptist pastor close up and leave . These churches are all at least 30 miles apart. Just about a week ago we had a women who we never meant chop up our signs and leave and axe in our door. The preist teach hard for the people to stay away from us they have even started a prayer group to pray we come back into there fold. One other thing that gets me also that I felt was revealed to me in prayer and made me see the problem with such faith in a name, is how we as baptist have no problem using groups that went by other names to prove our history how come we can compromise on that? How come ther hasn't been one name all through history, besides I am a Christian ? I have even been told that you can only be saved if you have the Baptist name. My heart goes out to these people because I wonder if they have surrendered to Christ or the theachings of a man. I wonder if there eyes are on the Lord or on the name they are so proud of. I have even been told there is no power in being a christian you have to be a Baptist by name not a christian. We have change our name about 5 months ago and the way the people are willing to listen when we witness is unbeliveable. It has been a pleasure to humble myself give up the name and see people coming to the lord in true repantance and souls won to the Lord showing forth his glory!! Learning his word and his doctorine, not what I use to consider Baptist doctorine. they are the same but the doctorine is the LORDS AMEN
     
  12. Dr. Bob

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    I for one am THRILLED that you have changed your name and no longer are mislabeled as "fundamental baptist".

    Any group that is KJVO no longer believes the fundamentals of the faith and should, rightly, drop the Baptist label.

    Just as we pray the liberal baptists will own up to the fact that they have moved from the truth and NOT sully the Baptist banner, so we pray that the "onlies" who have likewise moved from the truth will also call themselves something else.

    Good move! [​IMG]
     
  13. Alcott

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    So what is your criteria for presuming the name Baptist is superior to the name Bible? Hopefully members of a biblical church will all be 'Bible-ists'; but in no church I know of are all or most members going to baptize (meaning of 'baptist').
     
  14. Ernie Brazee

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    Excuse, excuse, excuse. Man always finds ways to rationalize compromise!

    We support a Baptist missionary on an island in Northern Canada that is controlled by the Catholic church. Now how much more predominant is that? Is he winning souls, yes, is he receiving opposition? Yes. Is he quiting? No. Is he using the Baptist name? Yes.

    The name has nothing to do with success or failure, it is the attitude of the people and their trust in the Lord. O

    Our former pastor was told 37 years ago that in 5 years he would be gone as it wasn't possible to start an IFB church in our area. Well, impossible for man, but not God. After all who builds a church? Man or God? Way to many Baptist Churches are started by man, run by man and supported by man!

    Yes God uses men to do all this and more, but if we aren't trusting Him to do the work, and accepting what he provides we are doomed to failure.

    So many churches think they are successful because of their numbers, yet are nothing more than religious meeting places filled with people who are more committed to their careers than the Lord, people who would rather watch football than walk across the street to talk to his neighbor.

    Changing the name to solve a greater problem is only the begining of a long road of compromise.

    It would appear there is a deeper problem here than the name. Yes people may be listening, but are they really? What has ar

    Preachers called of God don't leave because it is a hard area, if God truly called them they stay and finish the work.
     
  15. USN2Pulpit

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    We find agreement here, and you might be suprised to know that this is also the position of the pastor of Saddleback Church, as stated in his book, "The Purpose-Driven Church." In it, he asserts that the present spiritual "health" and obedience of those attending is of primary importance over amount of people attending or programs.
     
  16. Scott J

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    I voted "no." Not because there I want you to continue calling yourselves IFB but because I specifically object to a church simultaneously calling itself "Bible" and "KJVO".

    That said, there are right and wrong reasons to drop a label. If you were in an area where Baptist/IFB had become synonomous with Hyles/Ruckman types or where "Baptist" was identified with liberals who so call themselves then by all means drop the label so as to differentiate yourself. But if the object is to somehow not offend people then you are probably being hypocritical by changing the name.

    I am fundamental and baptistic in my beliefs... you can put whatever you want on the sign outside.
     
  17. Grasshopper

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    The name has nothing to do with success or failure, it is the attitude of the people and their trust in the Lord. O

    You just defeated your own argument.
     
  18. Ernie Brazee

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    What argument?

    Changing the name on the building insn't going to solve the problem on the inside of the building.

    There is a greater problem in this church than the name!

    They can't keep a pastor, they have no power in their witnessing, come on, a first year Bible student can see this. Instead of name chnge we need to pray for a heart change.

    No I'm not judging, just looking at the facts as presented, was I a member there I would be searching my heart to see what was hindering the Lord's work. We don't go forward in the Lord's work by the power of man. We can knock doors ten times over, and without the power of God we will reach no one.

    Are there any true Baptists here that believe in the power of God, or are you all like the Baptists where I grew up? They couldn't even tell someone how to be saved. Never once in Sunday School did anyone present the plan of salvation to me. Yes, I have much against these types of Baptist churches, Baptist in name, but abosolutely no power with God. These are the churches that should drop the name.

    Perhaps this church we are discussing should be called a Bible church, as they seem to lack the power of the historic Baptists.

    [ June 03, 2003, 08:36 AM: Message edited by: Ernie Brazee ]
     
  19. JoAnn

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    To Bro. Ernie....
    I say AMEN!
     
  20. Artimaeus

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    This was a tough one. I tell people that I am an independent, fundamental baptist to give poeople an idea of what I believe. I believe what I believe from Bible study and not because I am a Baptist. I am called a baptist because what I believe from the Bible is categorized by people as being a Baptist. I don't find a baptist church in the new testament and they seemed to do very well. I find the church of God, the churches of the gentiles, the churches of Christ, church of the living God, church of the firstborn, but I don't find Baptist Church so, it can't be a deal breaker. I am very pleased that there are a number of like minded souls such as myself and am also pleased to be known as a baptist, but I just don't find any Biblical justification for NEEDING to have Baptist on a sign out front.
     

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