Indisputable evidence of the effectual call

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by The Biblicist, Feb 21, 2015.

  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

    It is indisputable that:

    1. Paul is directly making an analogy with Genesis 1:2-3 which is indisputably the effectual call of light out of darkness. God spoke light into existence - that is an effectual call.

    2. Paul directly makes it analogous with how "the light of the knowlege of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ" came into existence "in our hearts". He is indisputably claiming this light was called into existence in the heart, just as light was called into existence in the darkened world - an effectual call.

    3. Paul's immediate context makes this analogy stronger by the fact that he has just described the unregenerate state of the heart as being in a state of DARKNESS (vv. 2-3) and it is that STATE OF DARKNESS that this analogy is called upon to describe how light REPLACES darkness and only the unregenerated state is in darkness as previously stated.

    4. The spoken word that calls into existence this metaphorical light of knowledge in the darkened heart is the gospel, however, it is not the gospel has empowered by the preacher as verse 7 clearly denies that the power to do that rests in the preacher or his preaching. This is exactly stated to the Thessalonicans in 1 Thes.1:5 because when only man speaks the gospel it comes "in word only" but when God speaks the gospel it comes in power, in the HOly Spirit and in much assurance.

    5. Furthermore this transaction occurs IN OUR HEARTS and NO MAN by NO human WORDS can work in that domain.

    Moreover, he does not say POTENTIAL light is available to remove the darkness, but light is spoken into existence that does remove the darkness.
     
  2. convicted1

    convicted1
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    I actually love how the ESV renders John 1:5....

    --The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

    Then there's the YLT's rendering of it....

    --and the light in the darkness did shine, and the darkness did not perceive it.


    Then there's the HCSB rendering....

    --That light shines in the darkness,
    yet the darkness did not overcome[a] it.


    Footnotes:
    a.John 1:5 Or grasp, or comprehend, or overtake; Jn 12:35


    All of these show the same thing, darkness wants zero to do with the Light, and can not comprehend the Light. However, once that Light has illumined the sin darkened heart, it's game over.


    Wonderful post, Brother Walter. :thumbsup:
     
  3. JamesL

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    Biblicist,
    Which are you suggesting is the effectual call? -

    1) God calls light into the believer
    2) God calls the believer into the light
     
  4. Robert William

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    Neither, because the natural man does not receive the things of God.

    1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
     
  5. Reformed

    Reformed
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    Some people may be confused as to what the Effectual Call is. The Effectual Call is the call of God upon the Elect that results in their salvation. The 1689 Second London Baptist Confession of Faith elaborates:

     
  6. JamesL

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    I don't see anything in this scripture that might even remotely relate to my question. Would you care to elaborate?
     
  7. JamesL

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    I did have a typo in my question to Biblicist. I asked if he is proposing that the effectual call is that of light being called into a believer or visa versa.

    What I meant, and twice typed wrong, is UNbeliever. But I supposed that might actually broaden my question. Which scenario best fits the intent of the OP?

    1) light is called into an unbeliever
    2) light is called into a believer
    3) unbeliever is called into the light
    4) believer is called into the light
     
  8. JamesL

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    This Protestant doctrine is contextually at odds with scripture.

    The biblical CALL is not in the context of who gets saved from hell. Neither is Election, btw
     
  9. jonathan.borland

    jonathan.borland
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    It's not a calling verse. It's a shining verse. You know...

    thine eye diffused a quickening ray;
    I woke, the dungeon flamed with light;
    my chains fell off, my heart was free,
    I rose, went forth, and followed thee.
     
  10. JamesL

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    I agree.

    I'm just trying to get how the OP misunderstands the topic
     
  11. The Biblicist

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    It is the creation of metaphorical light in an unregenerate heart, just as God created literal light in a darkened world. The metaphorial light IS FAITH in Christ - it is being "created in Christ" It is SEEING/KNOWING experienital knowledge by divine revelation God (which "is eternal life" (Jn. 17:3) with regard to his "glory" (holiness) IN THE FACE of Jesus Christ. When you are looking INTO THE FACE of someone you are KNOWING/SEEING THEM - that is saving faith. This is the work of God creating A BELIEVING HEART. LIGHT and SPIRITUAL SIGHT are one and the same as spiritual light is no light at all if there is no spiritual sight. He is not creating the ability to see but He is creating seeing and what the heart sees is "IN THE FACE OF CHRIST" - that is saving faith. Seeing without an object in sight is no sight at all. This is SEEING JESUS CHRIST as the gospel proclaims Him - that is saving faith.

    Paul is the instrument who brings the gospel to the external ear of the elect, but it is the Spirit of God that CREATES LIGHT "in our hearts" by empowering the gospel as His CREATIVE Word. Hence, the Word of the gospel comes first to us as a GENERAL CALL and then it is made the EFFECTUAL CALL by the Holy Spirit which third, it becomes the OBJECT of the faith it creates. Hence, in regeneration the gospel is both the creative word and the object of faith at one and the same instance.
     
    #11 The Biblicist, Feb 21, 2015
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  12. JamesL

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    Yeesh...

    Just pick #1 thru #4
     
  13. The Biblicist

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    They are all wrong.

    Light is not called into a "believer" or "unbeleiver" but IN OUR HEARTS which prior to that creative light exist in a state of spiritual darkness. He is explaining how a SPIRITUAL DARKENED UNREGENERATE heart becomes a SPIRITUAL ENLIGHTENED REGENERATE heart. It is by divine fiat. The difference is between an UNBELIEVING HEART and a BELIEVING HEART. God creates a BELEIVING HEART by divine fiat by an effectual call.
     
    #13 The Biblicist, Feb 21, 2015
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  14. The Biblicist

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    Paul says we are "his workmanship CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS" - Eph. 2:10 He does not create UNBELIEVERS in Christ Jesus. That is why it is the whole phrase "For by grace are ye saved through faith" that is the "gift" and work of God being "created in Christ Jesus." Moreover, the verb translated "saved" is perfect tense, a completed action that remains complete and that action was "through faith". Faith was not something that came later but had to occur as identical action with the perfect tense OR ELSE NO SALVATION OCCURRED. There is no such thing as unregenerated believers OR regenerate unbelievers. God creates a BELIEVING HEART. Quickening is bringing the human spirit which is separated from God or spiritually dead - separated from the LIGHT/LIFE/HOLINESS of God back into spiritual union with God or with LIGHT/LIFE/HOLINESS - it is creating a believing heart in righteousness and true holiness. This is the meaning of "light of knowledge of the holiness of God in the face of Jesus Christ." We are CREATED "in Christ Jesus" just as light is created by God by an effectual call.
     
    #14 The Biblicist, Feb 21, 2015
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  15. JamesL

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    1Peter 2:9 says we've been called into His marvelous light. So was Peter wrong?
     
  16. The Biblicist

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    Two different subjects. One deals with the external world system of darkness whereas the other deals with the internal state of the heart. The former is a consequence of the latter. They are inseparable but in a cause and consequence relationship. Peter is referring to the external MANIFESTATION of that light in service, whereas Paul is speaking about the internal CREATION of that light in the heart.
     
    #16 The Biblicist, Feb 21, 2015
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  17. JamesL

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    Ok....bear with me while I inquire.

    You're equating the shining of light with an effectual call.

    But as far as I know, Peter is the only NT writer who equated call with light. You say it's a different context.

    And the passage you quoted mentions the light shining into darkness - but Paul didn't mention CALL.


    #scratchingmyhead

    So how is it that light + call is not an effectual call, yet light with no mention of call is an effectual call?
     
  18. convicted1

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    May I please chime in? If not, tuff! LOL


    There are two lights referred to, the natural revealatory light that all see, and it shows that God exists. This light illumines the natural eyes only. Then there's that true Light, Christ, that illumines the heart, that sin darkened heart. Same with the gospel. There's a gospel call man makes in preaching and/or witnessing to the lost. Then there's the effectual calling God does through our preaching and/or witnessing to the lost. The effectual calling is there in 1 Peter 2...

    --Wherefore, also, it is contained in the Writing: `Lo, I lay in Zion a chief corner-stone, choice, precious, and he who is believing on him may not be put to shame;' to you, then, who are believing [is] the preciousness; and to the unbelieving, a stone that the builders disapproved of, this one did become for the head of a corner, and a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence -- who are stumbling at the word, being unbelieving, -- to which also they were set; and ye [are] a choice race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people acquired, that the excellences ye may shew forth of Him who out of darkness did call you to His wondrous light; who [were] once not a people, and [are] now the people of God; who had not found kindness, and now have found kindness.(2 Pet. 2:6-10 YLT)

    These guys were called out of darkness into that true Light, Jesus Christ...
     
  19. The Biblicist

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    But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: - 1 Pet. 2:9

    For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. - 2 Cor. 4:6

    Peter is referring to the call "out of darkness" or the darkness of this present world as a system of rebellion against God. Peter is referring to the ultimate goal of the effectual call in regard to this world. Note the introductory words "ye should SHEW FORTH" - hence this text deals with the MANIFESTATION of the light IN THIS WORLD SYSTEM OF DARKNESS.

    Paul is referring the creation of light "in our hearts" INTERNALLY rather than its external manifestation in this world.

    Paul is referring to the INTERNAL CREATION of that light whereas Peter is referring to the EXTERNAL purpose of that created light in this darkened world as lights in this darkened world. One is INTERNAL the other is EXTERNAL. It is the difference between CAUSE and PURPOSE.
     
    #19 The Biblicist, Feb 21, 2015
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  20. JamesL

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    Willis, I agree that the effectual call is right there in 1Peter 2.

    Now just keep reading down to verse 21 and you'll see what the calling is unto
     

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