Featured Individual Election

Gotcha. Didn't look at his profile; my bad.

 

As far as I know, PB's are Calvinists, adhering to the five points of the TULIP. They believe in total spiritual inability, unconditional election, limited atonement, irresistible grace and perseverance of the saints.

This of course, makes them mistaken in four of the five points.

 

We are not saved eternally by our faith, but by Christ's faith.

 

PBs are not Calvinists, because they believe that the elect will be saved whether they ever hear the gospel or not.

Calvinists believe that God saves the elect through the "foolishness of preaching" of the gospel. (I Cor 1:21)

 

This could be grist for a separate thread, but I contend that the Lord Jesus did not have faith because he didn't need it. He is the Creator of the Universe and is omnipotent. Omnipotence and faith are mutually exclusive.

 

I made the same mistake; I could have sworn Forest was a supralapsarian calvinist. Do a quick Google; there are plenty of articles by PB's that explain why they don't consider themselves calvinists.

 

Your 'grist' on these?:

For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? Ro 3:3

Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: Ro 3:22

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
20 I am crucified with Christ: neverthless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. Gal 2

But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. Gal 3:22

And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: Phil 3:9

Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Rev 14:12


Word: pistij

Pronounce: pis'-tis

Strongs Number: G4102

Orig: from 3982; persuasion, i.e. credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly, constancy in such profession; by extension, the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself:--assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity. G3982

Use: TDNT-6:174,849 Noun Feminine

Heb Strong: H530

1) persuasion in or conviction of moral truth; a firm belief in the truthfulness of God or religious truth, particularly reliance upon Christ for salvation;
1a) relating to God
1a1) the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ
1b) relating to Christ
1b1) a strong unwavering conviction that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God
2) the general quality or characteristic of being unwavering in such profession (fidelity, faithfulness, commitment)
2a) continuance of faith in one's profession.
2b) committing one's life to Jesus.
3) in addition or by extension, unwavering belief in the accepted creeds and religious beliefs of Christianity
3a) believing and upholding the creeds taught within scripture and by extension, the church.

 

NOPE...

its by the atonement that he accomplished while on the Cross for the sin debts owed unto God for His people that would get saved by his act...

Christ is God Incarnate, does God need faith?

 

differs from mainstream calvinism in the fact they see elction/regeneration as being done directly by God, faith in jesus may/may not occur here on earth...

Also see more of all things are directly predetermined by god, not much allowance for 'free will"

 

I will always yield to clear scripture.

A couple of questions, if I may. Since I'm not a Greek scholar can you exegete the word "of?" Is there any room to render it as "from" or "in" or "by?"

The other question is one I raised earlier. Why does Jesus need faith?

Now, it we can understand it as faith given to us by Jesus Christ, that makes sense. I believe that even the saving faith we exercise was given to us by God.

But to understand it as Jesus' own faith given to us--or His having faith in the first place--just doesn't compute for me.

I can accept it if the Bible teaches it, even if I don't understand it.

So, anybody wanna 'splain those passages kyredneck quoted ?

 

Do not think the Son of God would need to "exercise" faith to get things done, so my understanding would be that the Apsotle paul , because of the faithfulness of Christ in His atoning work, was exhorting us to follow Him by placing our faith in Him!

 

Galations 2:16 in my humbled opinion shows who's faith it is we are saved by.
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

This passage says we are justified by the Faith of Jesus Christ and just so we don't forget that, Paul makes it even clearer in him saying "even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, "
MB

 

Does God even need faith though!

 

Romans 16:13 seems to be teaching individual election. Hard to deny this.

 

Yes, but it's not always so clear, cut, and dried is it? There's many passages that I remain non committed on (read 'I don't know' or I'm not sure').

No, I can't exegete the word, but I believe the KJV is superior to the other translations in this regard ('faith of' vs. 'faith in'). I've done some searching, I was a bit surprised to see that the 'faith ofs' actually outnumber the 'faith ins', by about 2 to 1. There's only four ''faith ins':

And after certain days, when Felix came with his wife Drusilla, which was a Jewess, he sent for Paul, and heard him concerning the faith in Christ. Acts 24:24 KJV
And after certain days, Felix having come with Drusilla his wife, being a Jewess, he sent for Paul, and heard him concerning the faith toward Christ, Acts 24:24 YLT

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:26 KJV
for ye are all sons of God through the faith in Christ Jesus, Gal 3:26 YLT

Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints, Col 1:4 KJV
having heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love that is to all the saints, Col 1:4 YLT

For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. Col 2:5 KJV
for if even in the flesh I am absent -- yet in the spirit I am with you, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in regard to Christ; Col 2:5 YLT

Excerpt from By the Faith of Christ, or our faith in Christ?
by Tony Warren

“The most common distortion in the Church today of 'the doctrine of Grace' is in Christians attempting to make faith an action of conscience on our part, rather than humbly accepting that the faith we have is by the sovereign action of God alone. No one has faith of their own free will, faith comes by the divine will of God, through the gracious work of Christ. Yet in most circles today we are continually told that the old Bible versions are mistranslated and the scriptures should read, our 'faith in Christ,' rather than the 'faith of Christ.'”

Excerpt from 'Justification By Faith Alone':

“It is critical to note that in none of these cases, nor anywhere else in Scripture, is faith (or any other grace) represented as constituting some ground of merit for justification. And this is all the more remarkable when one considers that dia with the accusative would mean "on the ground of" or "on account of." Thus, dia ten pistin would convey the notion of "on the ground of or on account of faith," thereby making faith the meritorious reason for the believer's acceptance with God. Yet such is the precision of the Spirit's oversight of the New Testament scriptures that nowhere does any writer ever slip into using this prepositional phrase. On every occasion faith is presented as the means of justification. Justification by faith alone is never justification on account of faith (propter fidem), but always justification on account of Christ (propter Christum), i.e. on account of the blood-satisfaction of the Lamb of God being graciously imputed to and received by an undeserving sinner (Galatians 3:6; James 2:23). Ultimately, the ground of justification is Christ and His righteousness alone.”

I agree with Gill, “not by that faith which Christ himself had as man, but by that faith, of which he the author and object....”

Well, He was our example in every way.

 

As I see it, IMHO God chose not to tell us so that we would stick to what Jesus told us to do in Acts 1:8a: "...... You will be My witnesses, telling people about Me everywhere...." He didn't say who would respond to our witnessing, but He DID say to do it regardless. IOW, IMHO, it is NOT up to us to decide who exactly will respond in a positive way, i.e., who will actually receive Jesus Christ as his/her Personal Savior, but OTOH HE DID tell us to WITNESS about HIM, EVERYWHERE. If God wanted to tell us who would respond to out witnessing, IMHO, He would have told us so. IOW, we're to witness about Jesus & let people's response to our witnessing up to HIM......PERIOD!! If I'm wrong in my assessment of what the NT instructs me to both Do & what NOT to DO, please forgive me & supply VERY SPECIFIC NT verses that support your conclusion(s). I do not claim to know exactly everything about what God's Word tells me both what to do & what not to do, so I welcome anyone's positive input on this. Thanks in advance for your help!!