Informal Poll

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by quantumfaith, Dec 23, 2013.

  1. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith
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    Just wondering as to how many of my baptist "friends" have ever attended an Orthodox Jewish worship service?

    I attended one in our community some time ago. It was an interesting experience. As an aside, I learned that the copy of the Torah which they used in worship was one that was rescued from "Kristallnact" (sp) in Nazi Germany.

    The tonal music sort of "grated" on my ear drums. But I appreciated that the local Rabbi would pause and explain each part of the worship service.

    Aside 2: Our local Temple, would certainly not be considered "orthodox" within the orthodox community. My guess is there is as many distinctions within the Jewish worship community as there is within the christian community.
     
  2. padredurand

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    Been several times. Dear family friend is chazzan or cantor of Temple ben Joseph down the road from me.

    Mama's family came from Prussia at the turn of the last century fleeing Jewish persecution. The name Jacob has been used for 5 generations for the oldest son - some as a first name and some as a middle name including one of my first cousins. As a family, the ended up mining coal near Scranton PA. They started attending a Primitive Methodist Church in Jermyn because there wasn't a synagogue to be found and 3 generations of them got saved there.

    It's part of my heritage and there is part of me that wants to keep connected.

    Got time for a quick story? When I was with the UMC the pastor in the next parish down the road and I were good friends and true brothers in the Lord. Bill calls me one day and asks me if I'd ever done a Jewish burial. Bill had old family friends that were Jewish. Their rabbi wanted to charge them almost $4000 to travel from Jersey to Upstate NY so the dear departed Mrs. could be buried in the family plot. They called Bill but he already had a funeral hence his call to me.

    I didn't even know where to start. My cantor buddy had some stuff for me but I don't read Hebrew. I had a copy of the Armed Forces Hymnal and in the back was an entire Jewish burial service with phonetic pronunciation.

    It started with the Sh'ma. Sh'ma Yisra'eil Adonai Eloheinu Adonai echad.(Deut 6:4) and ended with the Mourner's Kaddish. The widower was very demonstrative in his grief starting with Adonai... and I wasn't sure if it was grief or he was weeping at my attempt at phonetic Hebrew.

    Later that day Bill called and I feared the worst. To make along story short the family wanted to know how Bill got a rabbi on such short notice who wouldn't accept a dime in payment. Bill got to spend the afternoon with them. He explained I was a Christian and he got to share the Gospel with them. It's my hope and prayer that some day in Heaven a member of that family will walk up to me and say, "Remember officiating a Jewish burial?"
     
  3. Revmitchell

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    The saw bones I used to see in Alamogordo was a conservative Jew. We used to talk religion and politics. He loved it. He had very little positive good to say about the Orthodox. I have never been. I will miss old saw bones.
     
  4. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith
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    Wonderful warm memory for a lifetime. Hope and prayers that the seed you sowed might be used by God to touch another's life.

    :praying:

    As a matter of prayer, I was just informed that a former student of mine and her husband were killed in a car crash in Florida this weekend. She and her husband were both believers. Her warmth and enthusiasm will be greatly missed.
     
  5. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith
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    If you ever have an opportunity, it is worth it. Seeing glimpses of of our origins.
     
  6. Revmitchell

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    I have my doubts that is true.
     
  7. HankD

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    Baptists ought to know that baptism has its origin in the Mikveh (a jewish ritual of total immersion in water).


    http://www.mayyimhayyim.org/Using-the-Mikveh

    HankD
     
    #7 HankD, Dec 24, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2013
  8. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith
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  9. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
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    Actually baptism has its origin in the biblical command to baptize.
     
  10. HankD

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    There are ancient mikvah locations through out Jerusalem which pre-date Christianity. They all had seven steps leading into the "living waters" (most are dry by now).

    One of the mikveh (or mikve, mikva, mikvah) practices was for a bride to be immersed in water before her wedding as she waited for the bridegroom.

    Anyone interested do a study on "mikveh and baptism".

    You might be surprised and perhaps even blessed.

    Another area of interest and study (if one is so inclined) is the the Lord's Supper which has its origin in the Seder (Jewish passover meal) which points to Jesus Christ as the Messiah (although they can't see it for the veil over their eyes) retained even to this present time.

    http://www.sonserver.com/passover-seder.htm


    HankD
     
  11. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith
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    :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

    I "seem" to recall some source which suggested that John the Baptizer was likely from or in some connected to the Essenes, who I believe practiced this ritual of cleansing. Which could very well be the source of our idea (and command) to baptize.
     
  12. HankD

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    True, the practice of water immersion comes from the OT, but RevM is correct if he means Trinitarian baptism which was commissioned/commanded by Jesus Christ and is unique to the NT.


    HankD
     
  13. Aaron

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    You gotta understand quantum: He's a Darwinist in everything. So no part of anyone's theology was given by revelation. All thought must have it's roots in some natural response to external stimuli.

    Next thing he'll be telling us is that Jesus was influenced by the Essenes.
     
  14. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith
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    Oh, how quaint. Even the stoic Aaron can be stirred by his passions. The passions to make statements that he KNOWs to be erroneous. What childish reductionism Aaron.
     
  15. kyredneck

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    No, I've not, but neither have I attended a Hindu or Muslim service; there is an 'Indian' temple of some sort not far from my middle daughter's house that I've wondered about, haven't attended it though.

    Seems I've read Jews place a lot of stock in having 'old' copies with history behind it to use in their synagogues.

    Was the singing acapella, or some sort of line singing like some Old Baptists still do?

    Did you feel welcome there? Were they friendly? Did you get to talk to any of them? Were there many? In short, did you feel any fellowship like you would with an Old Baptist congregation?


    Probably.
     
    #15 kyredneck, Dec 28, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 28, 2013
  16. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith
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    As I recall the music was acapella, but they obviously, as I later questioned and was informed, use a different musical scale, differing from our 8 note scale.

    Yes, I was very welcome. It was an intentional service, inviting area christians to experience and learn of "modern judaism". There was a "fellowship" following the service with a multitude of wonderful treats, no pork chops though.

    I did sense welcome and warmth, like any other gathering of "god minded" folks.
     
  17. kyredneck

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    Did they use musical instruments as an accompaniment to the singing? If not, it was indeed acapella!

    That's very interesting, never heard of such a thing, I can't imagine it, was it like chanting?

    It'd be nice if a 'music geek' would enlighten us about this.

    Did you perceive or pick up on any sort of proselyting on their part? How far is "modern Judaism" from becoming "Christian" do you think?

    Very close to the 'Indian' temple (I believe it's Hindu) is a gas/quick stop mart operated by what I'm fairly certain are the same group (the females wear dots on their foreheads), and they are very friendly and cheerful folks. They even fly the American flag out front.
     
  18. quantumfaith

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    I cannot honestly say I remember any instrumentation, there may have been some, on some selections....just don't remember

    No, there was no indication of proselytizing. I would add though, shockingly, much of the congregation are exceptionally wealthy, they even have a program to "grow" their community, by offering to move and pay a handsome salary to jews who would come and settle in our area.

    I was most intrigued by the reverence given to their Torah Scroll and particularly, as I learned later, the history behind it. I have several close friends who attend the Temple, some are ethnic jews, some, primarily because of marriage converted to Judaism.
     
  19. kyredneck

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    Lol, me being a Primitive Baptist that'd be one of the first things I'd look for, an organ or a piano (nowadays I hear it's drums, electric guitars, and amplifiers). IMO, if you didn't perceive instruments as being intrusive or overwhelming to the singing then it was probably acapella.

    I'm wondering why that would be shocking to you.

    As 'Jewish' as it gets. An old old story that has played out many times in many places and times, for real.

    I'm curious, a lot of Jews in your mathematics field?
     
  20. quantumfaith

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    I attend a "contemporary" style of worship, so we have the full complement of instrumentation. As to the "shocking", I meant it in a kindly sarcastic manner. I had one jewish math professor in Grad School. Statistically, most graduate and post graduate degrees in mathematics are earned by southeast asian, near east, and eastern europeans. You could easily experience this by a visit to most large universities. Most of the Departments of Mathematics are "non-american". IMO, for most non-technical undergraduates, this is often frustrating, often even for the math and engineering types too.

    As for the "wealth" of jews, stereotypically, but certainly not all, I think may be a result of the Babylonian captivity. But that is just a guess.
     

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