Intentional Lying

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Jamal5000, Nov 17, 2003.

  1. Jamal5000

    Jamal5000
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2001
    Messages:
    585
    Likes Received:
    0
    What happens when you sin intentionally?

    Does that mean that you DON'T have the Holy Spirit?

    Does God forgive intentional and untentional sins as long as you repent of them?

    Some questions puzzling my students. I'm looking for some other viewpoints.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    Almost ALL sin I do is intentional. God saved me and keeps me. I am a sinner but He is God.

    If NOT sinning would keep me saved, then my salvation would be by BOB and not by God.
     
  3. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0

    You sin.

    No, it means that you were not listening to the Holy Spirit.

    God forgives sin. Period.
     
  4. Mike McK

    Mike McK
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2001
    Messages:
    6,630
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree with Bob. I've never sinned "accidently". It's always been as a result of wanting to do what I wanted, rather than what God wanted.

    No, not at all.

    Remember that when John said, If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (John 1:8), he was talking to Christians, people who did have the Holy Spirit. He goes on to explain in 2:1, My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: . These are all written to people who do have the Holy Spirit.

    If you sin, it doesn't mean that you don't have the Holy Spirit, it means what John said, that you're not listening to the Holy Spirit.

    [qb]
    If you're a Christian, then your sins are already forgiven. The reason we continue to ask forgiveness is that sin in the life of a believer causes our hearts to become hardened to God and His word and each sin is like a brick. Sin long enough and don't confess it and repent and you've got a pretty big wall.
     
  5. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    26,806
    Likes Received:
    78
    How do you lie unitentionally?
     
  6. Hardsheller

    Hardsheller
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2002
    Messages:
    3,816
    Likes Received:
    0
    Same way you kill unintentionally, out of the passion or emotion of the moment.
     
  7. Terry_Herrington

    Terry_Herrington
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2002
    Messages:
    4,455
    Likes Received:
    1
    Amen Dr. Bob!
     
  8. Jamal5000

    Jamal5000
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2001
    Messages:
    585
    Likes Received:
    0
    Same way you kill unintentionally, out of the passion or emotion of the moment. </font>[/QUOTE]When you tell a lie without realizing that its a lie. You tell someone something that you thought was true, but you later learn from that person that you told them a lie. It was an "accident."

    I wonder if we lie when we don't answer our Caller ID if someone we don't want to talk to calls?
     
  9. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    26,806
    Likes Received:
    78
    Same way you kill unintentionally, out of the passion or emotion of the moment. </font>[/QUOTE]So then is murder which is not premeditated not a sin?

    Agree with previous posts - all sin is a choice, a conscious, deliberate choice to act, or a choice to act on the emotions of the moment.
     
  10. AllenLim

    AllenLim
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2003
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm no expert on law, but I believe the term murder usually implies an element of premeditated malice.

    Having said that, most of the time killing someone is a sin.
     
  11. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    I'd say it's just good common sense! No law forces me to answer the phone (or the door) ever! [​IMG]
     
  12. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    Not quite. Murder in the first degree would be that whose inention was a forethought. Lower degrees of murder involve murder that was not thought about until you comitted the act (such as those done in rage or passion), or where you did not intend to murder, but you committed an action whose consequences stood a reasonable likelihood of taking a life (such as unintentionally shooting someone during the course of a robbery).
    I have phone service for my convenience. I didn't get my phone to be a slave to it. If I don't feel like answering the phone, I ain't gonna, and it ain't a sin.
     
  13. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    26,806
    Likes Received:
    78
    I considered differentiating between murder and manslaughter, and clearly should have.

    Saying that, if you kill someone in the midst of a flury of anger, or lie in the passion of the moment, or commit adultery on the spur of the moment, or steal money that you happen to see without thinking about it, are those things not sin because you didn't plan on doing them?
     
  14. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    They are still a sin, because you chose to do them (even though you did not preplan it). Additionally, they are crimes.
     
  15. AllenLim

    AllenLim
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2003
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm pretty sure theres no blanket rule. Let me give you a scenario

    A family walks into a shopping mall, and while shopping, without their knowing, their baby (1 year old) grabbed a candy bar and drops it in the pram. They later leave the mall, and only discover the "theft" when they reach home... Did they steal something? sure... but to call it sin?

    Having said that, I guess in many cases our "lack of intention" does not excuse our actions.
     
  16. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    26,806
    Likes Received:
    78
    Your illustration is clearly an accident, and in this case rectifiable. There was no "theft." If I am backing my car out of the driveway unaware that a child has fallen asleep under the car and kill him, that is an accident.

    My questions all deal with actions over which control can be exercised. In my view each of the scenarios I mentioned is sin.
     
  17. Artimaeus

    Artimaeus
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2002
    Messages:
    3,133
    Likes Received:
    0
    We lose our fellowship with God.

    II Cor 6:14 ...what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness?

    I John 1:3 ...and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

    Phil 2:1 ...fellowship of the Spirit,

    I John 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

    Heb 13:5 he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee

    15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
    18 I will not leave you comfortless

    I John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
    8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
     
  18. Matthew 16:24

    Matthew 16:24
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2002
    Messages:
    182
    Likes Received:
    0
    Nice post Artimaeus! Answering questions with scripture! [​IMG]
     
  19. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    26,806
    Likes Received:
    78
    Dittos
     
  20. Hardsheller

    Hardsheller
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2002
    Messages:
    3,816
    Likes Received:
    0
    Same way you kill unintentionally, out of the passion or emotion of the moment. </font>[/QUOTE]So then is murder which is not premeditated not a sin?

    Agree with previous posts - all sin is a choice, a conscious, deliberate choice to act, or a choice to act on the emotions of the moment.
    </font>[/QUOTE]I never implied that telling a lie or murdering anyone is not a sin.

    What I said was you can sin unintentionally out of passion or the emotion of the moment. And I don't think you have proven me wrong.
     

Share This Page

Loading...