International Seminaries

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges / Seminaries' started by nkypastor, Jul 20, 2007.

  1. nkypastor

    nkypastor
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    Dr. Caner, head of Liberty Theological Seminary, has hid doctorate from the University of South Africa. I have noticed that many others are now turning to these institutions, as most of the degrees are resarch-based and involve considerably less money than their U.S. counterparts. I know that one or two here have studied through these universities, and I would like to know more about your experiences. In particular, the Master and Doctor's Of Theology are interesting to me. However, I have a couple of questions:

    1. Does the Doctor of Theology have an equivalent in the U.S.? If so, what?

    2. What type of potential accredidation issues does one run into (especially if they are considering teaching down the road)?

    3. What can you say or do you know about the following schools? Any info would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!

    University of Glasgow (Scotland): http://www.gla.ac.uk/

    Evangelical Theological Faculty (Belgium): http://www.bib.be/ETF/index.htm

    South African Theological Seminary: http://www.sats.edu.za/index_new.html

    University of Pretoria (South Africa):
    http://web.up.ac.za/

    University of South Africa:
    http://www.unisa.ac.za/

    University of the Free State (South Africa):
    http://www.uovs.ac.za/

    University of Zulaland (South Africa): http://www.uzulu.ac.za/HomePage1.aspx

    I appreciate any input you all can offer. Thanks!

    nkypastor
     
  2. UZThD

    UZThD
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    The African DTh=the USA ThD in nomenclature but not in curricula.

    The African or UK Mth is NOT the USA ThM!

    SAQA is the equivalent of USA regional accreditors.

    IMO SATS is short on curricula.

    My doc is from Unizul and I think I learned a lot. It cost about $3000. It took three years. IMO, one should do a US sort of MDiv AND ThM (not just a MA) first.
     
    #2 UZThD, Jul 20, 2007
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  3. nkypastor

    nkypastor
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    Uz,

    Thanks for clearing this up! So you were quite happy with your experience. I am working on a M. Div. through Liberty right now, and I was thinking the international route might work for me as well. So you have had little problem with your degree from the African school? Thanks!

    nkypastor
     
  4. UZThD

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    I earned the doc a month before turning 65. So, have little experience about how others , who have the ability to do that, view it.

    I can say that Wayne House who is quite experienced in Christian grad education having taught at Dallas , authored 30 books, and was president of ETS, considers my ThD as the equivalent of the USA. Wayne has me doing a little research for him now.And I can also say that Gary Derickson (PhD-DTS) , tenured prof at Corban after reading my dissertation, thought it equivalent of a Dallas doctoral product.

    I presented a paper at ETS and have taught a little bit in an accredited seminary but am mostly retired.

    BTW, I think Unizul would not let one into a doc on the basis of the MDiv...but in your case, as you have also an MA they may. A thesis done in a masters program on which one receives high marks evidences to the UZ faculty of Religion and Theology that a prospective student can do grad level research. If such a thesis is not done, one may have to do one for UZ to evidence the ability to perform independent research.

    When you see that Arminian heretic, Russell, say "Hi" for me. :)
     
    #4 UZThD, Jul 20, 2007
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  5. nkypastor

    nkypastor
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    Uz,

    I apologize for confusing you...I DO NOT have a MA degree. I have an undergrad degree (B.A. Ministry) and I am now working on my M. Div. So, essentially you are suggesting that I might consider another Master's before applying. I see. Sorry for the confusion, and congrats on your degrees!

    nkypastor :godisgood:
     
  6. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician
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    nkypastor response & observation

    Gentlemen:

    I do not want to speak for UZThD. Having said that, I would offer the following: if you are going to do a research/dissertation doctorate at one of the SA schools, you had better come prepared to do research or the program will eat you alive.

    What I mean by that is this, one needs (probably) to come into the program having written a fairly stiff MA or ThM thesis. I am not sure (with no ill will toward Liberty's MDiv) that without the thesis experience that anyone would be equipped to do the ThD.

    I would call UZThD back into the conversation to help with my uneducated opinion. But I believe that is what was implied by him above.

    Whatdayasay UZThD, can you give us some clarification on the issue?

    sdg!:thumbs:

    rd
     
  7. UZThD

    UZThD
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    I'm sorry. My memory has lapses. I confused you with another.So, neither would you know Russell.

    It is my understanding , but may be wrong, that the UZ faculty would not look upon the USA MDiv as a qualification for entering a DTh program .

    But an MA might suffice IF it is nationally (eg, TRACS) or regionally accredited and included a thesis.

    I suppose, were this true, the logic would be that whereas the MA in Bible commonly is predicated on a BA in Bible, the USA MDiv may be preceded by a BA in horticulture-or whatever.

    The effect may be that one with a BA/MA in Bible actually has more Bible than one with the higher masters--the MDiv. And, whereas many MA / ThM programs require a thesis, many MDiv's do not.

    Where we are looking ahead to earning higher degrees it may be advisable to contact the particular schools where we might apply.

    Even in the USA, as I suppose you know, one RA accredited seminary may have different requisites for entering and completing academic doctorates than does another.

    EG, Dallas considers the post MDiv ThM as the prereq for the PhD. One without the ThM will do more work! In contrast the Baptist Seminary of Pa, a school I favor and which allows much to be done by DE, only requires the MDiv. If one has a ThM, one need not do as much for the PhD!

    While UZ and other SA public unis may allow the beginning of a doc in Theology with a 1 or 2 year MA, IMO, the MA is insufficient to provide the background to do a doc.

    Bill G
     
    #7 UZThD, Jul 20, 2007
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  8. UZThD

    UZThD
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    ===

    Hi Rhet

    I would say, based on my experience, that a well researched and written master's thesis of perhaps 100-150 pages (my ThM was a little less though) is , as you say, a prerequisite both to entry and to providing the experience to finish a South African research only doc. The UZ faculty (which btw required NOT that I visit South Africa) did require that I be able to do independent research. And that know how is gotten partly by doing a prior thesis.
     
    #8 UZThD, Jul 20, 2007
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  9. nkypastor

    nkypastor
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    Men,

    Thank you both for your clarifications. Honestly, I am more comfortable writing research papers than mindlessly spewing information back at my professors. I think I would be suited for such a program, but I clearly have another degree to work on before I approach the SA seminaries.
     
  10. UZThD

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    ===

    That passes at Liberty...mindlessly spewing back info??

    Andersonville islooking better all the time:laugh:
     
  11. nkypastor

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    No, it doesn't pass at Liberty...although I can see where you may have thought that. :) I actually write quite a bit at Liberty, and I enjoy it. I was just saying I do better with that type of program than the spewing back information. Trust me, Liberty is a very RIGOROUS program! Have a good one, and thanks again for your help!

    nkypastor
     

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