Interpreting Genesis One

Funny that's not what the text says. And to say that Peter was speaking in symbology would be saying that Peter was being atypical, because Peter was not about being floweredy with his words. He was say what you mean and mean what you say type of individual.

Can you give me any more examples of Peter speaking in symbology, becuase I can't think of any. I could be wrong, but I can't think of any.

It makes perfect sense if the context is calling for it. And there are several Scriptures that context tells us that is EXACTLY what is meant in both the OT and the NT.

That I would agree with and that's why a comparison of II Peter and Psalm is comparing apples and oranges.

Huh?

Well verse 1 is, but that's about it until you get to some of the animals and man (women).

He didn't in Genesis. Genesis 1 is speaking of literal 24-hour days literally, but in typology it is speaking of the septenary arrangment of Scripture with is 7,000 years (hence 7 days). Man's day is 6,000 years in length and the Lord's day is 1,000 years in length.

Actually He said He "made" it in six days, not created. BIG difference if we are to understand Scripture correctly.

Amen! So if God said a day is just as a 1,000 years and a 1,000 years just as a day then let's believe Him!

It does if one is trying to place 1,000-year time periods into the days. There we would agree, because they are actually 24-hour days. It's not even scientifically possible to have 1,000 years for each day. It wouldn't work.

 

Actually the Greek word in II Peter 3:8 can be translated even as or just as.

 

I am thinking that "AS" and "JUST AS" are the same thing or at the very least "a distinction without a difference".

In Christ,

Bob

 

I think that is what the text is saying as well, but my point is it is an exact comparison that is being made, not a generality as a number in Christendom try to say.

Now granted I think there are those that misuse II Peter 3:8 by referring back to Genesis 1 in an incorrect manner. I think they have II Peter 3:8 correct, but they are misapplying It's Truth.

In the literal sense on Gensis 1 the days can not be seen as more than 24-hour periods. And I know that some people use II Peter 3:8 to "prove" that the days are really gaps of time.

But just because some misuse the Truth doesn't make it any less true. II Peter is telling us that 1,000 years = day and a day = 1,000 years at least in some contexts. Granted that's not all contexts as you have pointed out Christ was not in the tomb for 3,000 years.

But there are a number of contexts where if a day = 1,000 years and 1,000 years = a day then the passage makes no sense.

And part of that is our text in Genesis 1. God said He has set about to work again six days and will rest on the seventh day. Obviously He is not speaking of another literal 24-hour six days of work and a 24-hour of rest. He is at work 6,000 years and He will rest for 1,000 years.

That is the septenary arrangment of Scripture in a nutshell. Of course it is a lot more detailed than that.

 

To say that a minute is as an hour and a day is as a moment is NOT a mathematical statement about "equalities".

The point is that God DID give such an equality when talking to Ezek about the symbols of days saying "I have given you a day for a year" Ezek 4:5-6. "I have assigned you a day according to the number of years".

Imagine if instead of that God had said "A day is as a year with me as a year is as a day" to make the point "I am not delaying the captivity into Babylon". There would be no way to get the "equality" clearly stated that he was making about a day literally standing for a literal year in the time prophecy.

It is always true that you can never have a day = something MORE than a day while ALSO having something MORE than a day = a literal day. Such "assignments" would result in jibberish.

But when we look at the context of 2Pet 3:8 we see that the point is God is "NOT taking too long to setup the 2nd coming". NOT because 1000 years were shrunk down to a day while at the same time a day was expanded out to 1000 years -- but rather because God's is patiently working out His Gospel plan over 1000's years without growing weary. Like we would working something out for a mere day.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Bob I don't have a problem with that as I think it is a true statement. However to set aside what the text says is to miss another point that is equally as true.

And a point that Peter was trying to get across to the folks is to remember God's plan that He had laid out and they would know that He wasn't slow about keeping His promise of returning. The time wasn't right according to God's timetable, which He has given us!

God didn't squash 1,000 years into a day and didn't expand a day into 1,000 years. That's not the point. The point is that in some contexts of Scripture when a day is spoken of it is speaking of time frame of 1,000 years. Again to miss this point (Peter says to stop being ignorant of this point) is to miss a great detail of the arrangment of Scripture as God has laid out His plan.

God has given us the big picture of time as it deals with this earth and what is coming and we need just look at Scripture and understand what He has given us to see it.

 

There is no rule in all of scripture saying "in this case a day stands for a 1000 years".

And one of the best places NOT to find that is in 2Peter 3:8 where we see that NO such rule is written "A day is equal to 1000 years" because to eisegete the text in that way would result in "A day is equal to 1000 years and a 1000 years is equal to a literal day".

No such bending and twisting of the text is possible -- yet those seeking to escape the clear wording of Genesis 1-2:3 and the summation of that wording given in Exodus 20:8-11 will stop at nothing to turn a blind eye to the text.

How sad.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Quote:
It does not mean we are to think of 1,000 years when God says a "day" in the Bible. That makes no sense at all.

In fact there is not even one text telling us that "day means 1000 years".

2Peter 3:8 is a good example of a text that does NOT say that. I tells us that with God a day IS AS a 1000 years AND 1000 years IS AS a day. By using BOTH forms - the text is NOT usuable as rule for symbolic interpretation since it would be the pure whim of the interpreter using it as he wished - instead of using a valid Bible rule.

Yet that is exactly how many seek to use scripture.

In Christ,

Bob

 

That appears to be a not too thinly veiled plug for atheist darwinism.

I have no problem with a gap between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 -- but it is clear that from Genesis 1:2 through Genesis 2:1 the literal creation ALL LIFE on earth as well as the Sun and moon --- is accounted for.

 

It's called comparing Scripture with Scripture and understanding the septenary arrangement of Scripture.

Bob that's exactly what the text says. To the Lord 1,000 years is just as (exactly like) one day and one day is just as (exactly like) 1,000 years.

You don't have to accept it if you don't want to, but just because you don't want to accept it doesn't mean it's not true.

Exactly! If we will let Scripture say what Scripture says then bending and twisting of Scripture is not possible. Unfortunately that isn't the case always

That is true to. And that's why I said that just because some people want to misuse II Peter 3:8 and misapply what that statement means to the literal reading of Genesis 1 doesn't make it a false idea. There are many people that mis-teach salvation by God's grace alone through faith alone in the finished works of Christ alone, but that doesn't make believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved any less true.

We have to believe what the Bible says regardless if some people misuse Scripture.

Yes there is. II Peter 3:8 But we've already been discussing that for awhile now haven't we.

See that's the problem Bob. God isn't fitting into your hard and fast rules and that gives you problems. God doesn't fit into our boxes we have to conform to His box. And the Bible is not left to personal interpretation. Therefore if one is studying Scripture properly this truth that one day is JUST AS (exactly like) 1,000 years and 1,000 years is JUST AS (exactly like) one day with the Lord they will only apply it where the Spirit intends for it to be applied and context tells us exactly where with an understanding of the septenary arrangement of the Scriptures.

 

That's the only place a gap can exist. The days are literal 24-hour days. It is not even scientifically possible for there to be a 1,000 years or 10,000 years between days.

 

Now see - we agree on something!:thumbsup:


It happens every now and then - with each person on the board.

To add to the point - in Exodus 20:8-11 God provides a summary of the Gen 1-2:3 events and shows those days to equate to the days of mankind at Sinai - the literal week. Same author, same context, same term - impossible to twist or bend to another usage.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Quote:
There is no rule in all of scripture saying "in this case a day stands for a 1000 years".

Except there is no scripture that ever says this - so there is no two of them to compare where even TWO or more would say such a thing - when in fact there is not even one!

To believe that "no time exists" or that "Sometimes God uses a day to represent a 1000 literal years" you have to "make it up".

But what about the "day for a year" idea? Must we also "make that up" as you do for "day equals 1000 years" and "1000 years equals 1 literal day"??

Or do we have "actual Bible texts showing us that prophetic rule" of "A day for a year" ??

Day for a Year – rule in Scripture as we see it in Dan 9’s 70 weeks prophecy (490 solar years correspond to 490 prophetic days in Dan 9)

Numbers 14:34
34'According to the number of days which you spied out the land, forty days, for every day you shall bear your guilt a year, even forty years, and you will know My opposition.

Ezekiel 4:6
"When you have completed these, you shall lie down a second time, but on your right side and bear the iniquity of the house of Judah; I have assigned it to you for forty days, a day for each year.

 

So in Gen 1 where we have a "historic account" time must always be literal. But in predictions of the future - as in Dan 9 we can have the rule applied "A day for a year".

In Gen 1 EACH day is in form "evening and morning" -- were we to suppose (insert) 1000 years into each day we would have 500 years of evening followed by 500 years of daylight.

A totally unworkable solution.

Even InquiringM seems to get this.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Bob this is just like your false non-OSAS argument. You can say that I'm making it up a 1,000 times, but it doesn't make you right. The original language says JUST AS (exactly like). There's nothing made up. We can either believe it or not.

And while there is not another 1,000 years = a day text in some many words there are many other Scriptures that if that statement in II Peter 3:8 is not true, but just some fanciful symbology then these other Scriptures make no sense and have no meaning.

And I'll ask you as I asked another that has failed to show anything. But to say that Peter was speaking in symbology here is to go against the nature of who Peter was. Can you show many any other places in Scripture where Peter spoke symbolically. I don't know of any.

Peter was a pretty direct person always saying what he meant and meaning what he said in a direct fashion, not a symbolic fashion.

But Bob you keep on believing the way you want to, but if 1,000 years = a day and a day = 1,000 years is not literal then again a number of passages of Scripture in both the OT and the NT make no sense and completely lose any meaning.

 

JJ and you are free to make stuff up 1,000 times - it does not make it "proof of anything" as far as doctrine goes.

I think we have reached an understanding:laugh:

Now try paying attention to the text of 2Peter 3 instead of faithfully ignoring it.

7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.[/b]
8 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.
9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, [b]not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.
11 Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,
12 looking for and hastening the coming of [b]the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat![/quote][/B]

The text says that BOTH are true in defense of the long time it is taking for the 2nd coming. The statements show the sense that God is not rushed in a day NOR is he too impatient to unfold a plan for a 1000 years.Bascially it does not offer a RULE of interpretation as we see in Numbers and Ezek.

Notice what a rule for interpretation looks like?? yet?

Numbers 14:34
34'According to the number of days which you spied out the land, forty days, for every day you shall bear your guilt a year, even forty years, and you will know My opposition.

Ezekiel 4:6
"When you have completed these, you shall lie down a second time, but on your right side and bear the iniquity of the house of Judah; I have assigned it to you for forty days, a day for each year.

Notice what a rule for interpretation looks like?? yet?

This is incredibly obvious.

In Christ,

Bob

 

This is a good catholic rendering (kinda like "Protestant Purgatory" using 1Cor 3) of the mythology used to wipe out the truths of Genesis 1.

But the text "by contrast" cleaerly points to "evening and morning" were the first day... 2nd day, 3rd day etc.

AND the SUMMARY of this Genesis 1-2:3 event is obvious and clear in Ex 20:8-11

man-made tradition and eisegesis assumes that God HAS NO access to light apart from the Sun - it assumes GOD CAN NOT provide a single-sided light source for the earth day 1 since He is not creating the Sun until day 3.

It tells us no such thing. NOTHING in the text tells us "don't take this literally" it is ALL trustworthy - ALL true - ALL accurate and is called "The ACCOUNT" Gen 2:4 of the making of the World.

The ACCOUNT is accurate - right down to the DAY! (This concept is very difficult for the Catholic sense that is often injected into Gen 1 instead of going along with God's Word).

8 ""Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 "" Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.
11 "" For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Notice "how many days" God says it took and how many days WE too are to work -- the same number?? How amazing!!

Can we BELIEVE God?? Some say no.

In Gen 3:1-3 we see the first really good argument put forward for NOT believing the literal DETAILS of what God said in Gen 1-2.

In the arguments of Christian evolutionists - we see another really good argument for NOT believing the literal details of Gen 1-2:3.

How similar they are - is pretty much glaringly obvious.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

2 The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.
3 Then God said, ""Let there be light''; and there was light.
4 God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness.
5 God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.

God creates light in “one evening and morning” – showing a single-sided light source and a planet in rotation. In all cases the “Evening and morning” formula is used to show “one day”.

6 Then God said, ""Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.''
7 God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so.
8 God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.

God creates dry land in “one evening and morning” – and gives us the cardinal numbering – day two. This is now a “Chronological Sequence” that literally shows events AND the timeline that bounds them.

Exodus 20:8-11 references this 7 day Chronological “sequence” explicitly confirming the sequence

9 Then God said, "" Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear''; and it was so.
10 God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good.
11 Then God said, ""Let the earth sprout vegetation: plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them''; and it was so.
12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit with seed in them, after their kind; and God saw that it was good.
13 There was evening and there was morning, a third day.

God creates vegetation – on day 3. One day before creating “the TWO great lights”. All vegetation is created in “one evening and morning” – and God gives us the cardinal numbering for this day – day 3. This is a “Chronological Sequence” that literally shows events AND the timeline that bounds them.

14 Then God said, ""Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens[/b] to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years;
15 and let them be for [b]lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth''; and it was so.
16 God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; (He made the stars also).

17 God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth,
18 and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good.
19 There was [b]evening and there was morning, a fourth day.[/b]

God creates “Two Great Lights” – on day 4. God gives us the cardinal numbering for this day – day 4. This is a “Chronological Sequence” that literally shows events AND the timeline that bounds them. The formula is the same “God Said – Let there be… God saw that it was good… AND there was evening and morning – A nnnn- Day”


20 Then God said, ""Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens.''
21 God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind; and God saw that it was good.
22 God blessed them, saying, ""Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.''
23 There was evening and there was morning, a fifth day.

God creates fowl and fish on day 5. God gives us the cardinal numbering for this day – day 5. This is a “Chronological Sequence” that literally shows events AND the timeline that bounds them. The formula is the same “God Said – Let there be… God saw that it was good… AND there was evening and morning – A nnnn- Day”