Introduction & BIG question: Can I be both Catholic & Baptist?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Trinity47, Aug 22, 2016.

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  1. Trinity47

    Trinity47
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    Hi all :) Lifelong Catholic here. Married with four kids. I have always considered myself a Christian first and a Catholic second. Always. When someone asks me what I am I say, "Christian" Then if they ask further I will say Catholic. I have been met with mixed reactions when I say that I am Catholic. Most of the attacks I have received if not all have come from Baptists. My husband is Methodist but we have raised all of our children Catholic. Let's be honest about that though, the Catholic church made us sign a document pledging that our children would be raised catholic and we did that and were married in the catholic church. It wasn't a problem for my husband at all because while we loves Jesus he isn't the religious sort so he had zero problem with that and at the time I was 100% catholic anyway and my own father was also Methodist and my Mother the devout Catholic so the family I grew up in were all raised catholic as well. In other words this was normal to me. I did opt to have the typical Mass taken out of my marriage though because I didn't want half of our guests who weren't catholic to feel left out. Married twenty-five years last June and I am forty-seven years old now.

    About fifteen years ago I had a "Bride of Christ" dream but I had no idea what it meant back then to be the bride of christ. I know now what it meant and that the true church of Christ is the bride and he the bridegroom, but aside from telling my husband about this AMAZING dream where I was picked out of a crowd by Jesus and how unworthy I felt at the beginning until he told me why I was worthy, I have not told anyone else for fear of being told that I'm crazy or having delusions of grandeur. At the time i had the dream I worried about just that because having a dream that Jesus is picking you as his bride from a crowd of women and men does sound crazy...Until you read your Bible and understand that he is coming back for his bride. Makes total sense now and there are a LOT of others who have had this same dream, just personalized for them just like mine was. Maybe someday I will feel open to talking about it but I know it was just for me because I often have a very hard time forgiving myself, so I won't be going into that here. That isn't why I am here anyway...

    Why am I here then?

    I need help. I feel like I've been born again. I feel it, I know it. I started listening to a Baptist preacher online because while I love Mass and remembering the Last Supper and love the tradition of the catholic church, I really needed HELP in understanding the scriptures. I have a very hard time reading the Bible and understanding it. I love the KJV bible and I wouldn't change bibles for anything as I know this is the bible I am meant to have. So I found this minister and I've been listening to him and I really, truly feel that he has the right interpretation of most scriptures, so much so I was ready to convert! Then it happened...He said that all Catholics were going to hell. He bashed the Jewish faith too and Islam, which I sort of agreed with him on that though I would never use the words he used to describe their false prophet, but that isn't why I am here. It felt mean and wrong and actually pretty worldly and hate filled. Love thy neighbor right? I then started worrying like OMG Baptists will hate me for being Catholic even though I don't worship Mary, I don't even like the Pope and he's never had influence over me, I don't worship idols, I only went to confession twice once when I made my first Holy Communion and once when I was confirmed. It never felt right for me and I preferred to talk to God and to confess to Jesus, yet Baptists still might hate me. Why???? I am hoping I am wrong. I had a very, very close friend who was /is Southern Baptist and he never said such things to me at all though he was super polite and while he didn't say it I know he thought my religion was weird or "different" which is how I think he put it once after he attended a Mass once. I am now back to thinking nope I'm still catholic but why can't I be both? If one church gives me the Mass which I love and the tradition and the worship experience that I NEED (the Catholic church does this for me) and one gives me the in-depth interpretation of the scriptures (Baptist) then why can't I just be both? I feel like both. I need both. How is that wrong? Isn't the whole idea to grow in faith? I've actually thought that I also might start taking part or at least trying some Jewish customs all in order to grow in faith. I want and need an ongoing, growth inspired, living and breathing relationship with Jesus Christ, my savior, my king. I don't want to stray into the world of falseness though, but I do feel like I have a pretty solid footing so far as what is right and what is wrong. Up until the Baptist preacher proclaimed that all Catholics were going to hell, he had me. People don't really believe that do they?? I mean, most of the ideas I have read in regards to Catholics are not fact at all. The stereotypes I mean, they really include probably 2% of Catholics. I don't know anyone who is Catholic who goes to confession or even believes in it. I know 0 Catholics who go to confession. I know 0 Catholics who worship Mary over Jesus and I've been in the church for 47 years. I know they are out there though, especially in Latin countries and other places where Mary worship is real. Do I hold her in esteem? Absolutely. Do I think she was forever a virgin, no I don't. I thought she and Joseph had many kids? Is it on the top of my list of things to care about or wonder about who is right and who is wrong? Not even close, I don't really care honestly. So yeah, the doctrine I believe is probably 50/50.

    Any thoughts I would appreciate them. I am actually scared to post this here because I have been bashed by Baptists before and told that I am going to hell, but I KNOW I am not and that I am saved by the blood of the lamb that he shed for me and for you.
     
  2. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki
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    I will post more stuff later but long story short:

    The Catholic Church officially teaches salvation by sacraments, which is really just a form of works.

    Read Romans chapter 3-5 That chapter teaches we are justified by faith without any works.

    A person who believes sacraments saves them will be condemned to hell. The Catholic Church is leading many people
    To hell with their false teachings.

    Read Galatians 1:6-9 and Ephesians 2:8-9.

    Also the Roman Catholic Church matches the description of the Whore of Babylon described in the book of Revelation and God tells us to come out of her. Wayoflife.org has great resources on Roman Catholicism.
     
  3. StefanM

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    In short, no.
     
  4. utilyan

    utilyan
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    Everything Catholics teach is found in Catechism.
    http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM
    Folks like Jordan LIE, make up what Catholics believe.



    You wouldn't go to a Nazi website to find out what Jews believe.


    We Catholics don't do works for salvation.
    We do the command of God for FREE.


    We don't take something Jesus Christ commands and then put it on a scale and wonder......gee is this going to give me salvation or not? I this going to give me 5$ or not?

    Who's the whore here?
    But we Catholics don't call them whores. We say they are mistaken brothers and sister. They just respond with terrorism of fear.


    Our priority is Love, Kindness, and Compassion first.
    Our priority is not treating God like some monster, and the bible like some manual on how to avoid the monster
    You need to put reliance on God, Let God be your protector, The bible doesn't protect you from God, God protects you from the bible.



    Baptist are probably right ONLY about us going to hell. Cause a Catholic doesn't leave others behind. If we come up to two houses, one having a party and one on fire with people screaming. The Catholic will run to the fire.


    A selfish mind is self-centered only worried about itself.

    You only need to contemplate on what a perfect hero would do. What would the kindest most loving heart do.

    Among people we respect the person who loves others and would die for another, Yet why isn't that standard applied to religion?

    The Catholic church loves others. We are taught Love your enemies.


    1 John 4
    8The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.


    1 Corinthians 13
    1If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.
    4Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, 5does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, 6does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; 7bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
    8Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part; 10but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. 11When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. 12For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known. 13But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.
     
  5. StefanM

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    In longer form, the doctrines are mutually exclusive. Sacraments as a means of grace simply do not have any place in a Baptist church. We practice communion and baptism (by immersion), but neither impart any grace separate than the grace one experiences in worship.

    Most Baptists believe that salvation cannot be lost, once attained.

    It all boils down to reformation principles---faith alone, Scripture alone, grace alone, through Christ alone, and glory to God alone. These are the five "solas" of Protestantism.

    The Catholic church rejects Scripture alone because it believes the church's Magisterium/Tradition is on par with Scripture. Faith alone is rejected, too (for faith + works). I could go on about the others, but the point is this---Catholic and Baptist are about as far apart on the denominational spectrum as one can find.

    I'm not anti-Catholic like some might be, but I do believe that the Catholic church has some major, major doctrinal flaws. Transubstantiation is one of them. The doctrine, for most Baptists, will be considered, quite frankly, absurd.

    Papal infallibility is a problem, as is the Pope himself (the office, not the specific person).

    Baptists have their quirks, but in general our concept is that the Bible is inerrant, infallible, and inspired by God and is the only standard for faith and practice. We have distinctives beyond that, but our central focus is the Bible and the Bible ALONE.

    The Catholic church can't commit to that. That's one of the reasons one can't be both.
     
  6. Trinity47

    Trinity47
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    The Catholic Church officially teaches salvation by sacraments, which is really just a form of works.

    They do teach that but that is not why they are taught, at least not from my experience. It was to achieve an outward sign of grace. That is what I was taught, and yes we all had to go to school for this. I guess you might be right, though it was never explicitly said to me that I was doing this for salvation. I've always believed that Christ died on the cross so that I may have salvation. If I didn't get that idea from the church then I don't know where it came from, so it had to come from the Catholic church. However the sacraments are not in scripture that I know of so it's a man-made aspect of the church. There are some sacraments your average catholic will never achieve and were only meant for clergy.

    Read Romans chapter 3-5 That chapter teaches we are justified by faith without any works.

    See I'm not really sure where I fall on this. I tend to think that works are important but not as important as believing in Christ and accepting him as your Savior. The works will just happen as a result of walking in his light is how I think about works. I hold Jesus up as the best example of how a person should think,behave and act upon. I will often fail and when I do I will endeavor to do better, repent for my sins and learn from it and in that good works will follow. I'm not hung up on works though I just think that they should come naturally to Christians.

    A person who believes sacraments saves them will be condemned to hell. The Catholic Church is leading many people
    To hell with their false teachings.

    Sacraments alone yes, but so far as I know the Catholic church doesn't teach that as I was never taught that. If it does then I missed that day at CCD lol I was not the best student though of catholic faith lol I would never assume to tell anyone that they were going to hell. I am way more humble than that and it feels like a sin to me to tell anyone that they are going to hell. That isn't my place, that is for Jesus to decide.

    Read Galatians 1:6-9 and Ephesians 2:8-9.

    Also the Roman Catholic Church matches the description of the Whore of Babylon described in the book of Revelation and God tells us to come out of her. Wayoflife.org has great resources on Roman Catholicism.

    I'm not going to disagree with you here and will just leave it at that for now. As I said I have problems with the church, and the notion of rotten at the top is a pretty BIG idea that has even catholics worried. There are so many false teachers though within the Christian faith and also the truth movement. I actually heard a BIG name truther telling people that the "elect" in Christ are actually the elect as in politicians and that even they will be fooled. Talk about twisting doctrine and nobody says anything and follow this idiot blindly. My eyes are open is all I will say :)

    Thanks for that, keep it coming because this might help me to know whether I am Baptist or Catholic lol
     
  7. Trinity47

    Trinity47
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    I do think I can be both though. I can listen to a Baptist preacher and also a Catholic priest and if I am walking in Jesus's light then I will easily be able to discard what is false and learn and grow from what is right and righteous. If in doubt I will pray about it and Jesus will help me. I firmly believe this. I don't think one religion has it all right. Every Christian religion has rotten apples and good apples.
     
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  8. utilyan

    utilyan
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    We Catholics are Bible Believing Christians. We read scripture for what it says.

    The Catholic church rejects Faith Alone because nothing in scripture says Faith Alone other then when it says NOT by faith alone.

    James 2
    24You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.



    The Catholic church rejects Scripture alone, because nothing in scripture says Scripture alone. Bible only is Unbiblical.

    Scripture is certainly good, God breathed and helpful:
    2 timothy 3
    16All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

    Profitable for teaching, doesn't say it IS teaching.
    Profitable in training in righteousness, Doesn't say it IS training in righteousness.

    Having hands is profitable for reading the bible and turning pages, that doesn't mean your hands are the teaching.


    Scripture Alone is dangerous according to Scripture.

    2 peter 3
    16as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

    Scripture is hard to understand, can easily be distorted, without guidance can lead one to their own destruction.

    Our buddies here don't even agree with each other and swear anyone who is not like them goes to hell.
    One might be a Calvinist, one might be Armenian, one might be neither.


    We don't have to dress up what the bible says. We say amen to the whole thing we believe the bible.


    Rarely does a Baptist debate what Catholics believe, But quite often debate what we don't believe.


    Baptist will say Catholics worship Mary and like you said 0 Catholics worship Mary.

    They will always depend on a lie they were taught and dictate what we believe.
     
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  9. StefanM

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    How do you explain the doctrine of transubstantiation?

    Also, I'm not recalling which group had an issue with it, but what of the doctrine of sacraments' being effective ex opere operato? A wicked priest can celebrate Mass and have it still be valid, but a holy lay person couldn't celebrate Mass at all?

    The perpetual virginity of Mary? (And her Immaculate Conception?)

    And what of papal infallibility? Why does the Pope get to declare ex cathedra that something is so and it be forever binding?

    And, in case you are wondering, I'm not anti-Catholic. I'm anti-Catholic doctrine (in some areas), just like I'm anti-Lutheran doctrine (in some areas). I believe many Catholics, include the ones on this thread, have salvation, and I don't think the Catholic church is the Whore of Babylon. I just don't agree with it on several points.
     
  10. Yeshua1

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    Welcome to the Board...

    One can be saved and born again while attending a catholic Church, but that is due to the work of God to save them, and despite the false Gospel of the church of Rome...

    One cannot be both a Roman Catholic and a Baptist at same time, as both would disagree on the very basic truths of what the bible is, the Gospel, Church. salvation itself etc...

    Most important thing is to have your belief cemented not in Rome, sacraments, mary. mass but in the work and person of Jesus Christ, for its by grace alone thru faith alone that one is saved!
     
  11. utilyan

    utilyan
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    Trinity,

    The Catholic church teaches you should follow your good conscience, Even if it leads you against the church. So if your conscience wants to investigate the Baptist faith, God is not going to send you hell for this, anymore then you would your own child for following their good conscience.

    In fact if you go against your conscience, we Catholics would call that a sin. :D

    God is not a monster, God can be trusted.

    I myself am a Catholic who attended Baptist church for 4 years, learned plenty. Today I attend Jehovah's witness for over a year and still learning.

    I don't agree with none of them, but I learn a lot.
     
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  12. StefanM

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    Do you mean one denomination or one religion? There's a HUGE difference.

    Baptist to Catholic is one thing, but Islam or Buddhism is another.
     
  13. StefanM

    StefanM
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    Where would the church teach this? Do you have a reference?

    That seems out of character (cf. the Council of Trent).
     
  14. Trinity47

    Trinity47
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    I can't give up Mass at the Catholic church so I won't be converting. It's too important to me. I will however listen to Preachers explain scriptures until which time they say something like "All Catholics are going to hell," and then I will just pray for them. I don't believe in just the Bible alone so I guess I am not Baptist but I can learn things about the scriptures from them so it's all a good thing :) I know Jesus is guiding me, but it isn't to convert because if it was then I would feel welcomed and I don't. That is not to say that every single person on this thread hasn't been wonderful because you have! So thank you and bless you all :)
     
  15. StefanM

    StefanM
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    I think I would call you an evangelical Catholic. It seems to be an appropriate term.
     
  16. utilyan

    utilyan
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    I think the first group to have a issue was Novatianists then Donatist. (I just wiki'd the stuff but don't tell anyone, I want to keep an all knowing aura) :p

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novatianism
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donatism

    They believe in a church of saints, no sinners. Bad sin and you were out. When priests/Christians would deny Jesus or hand over their scriptures to save their own lives, they were branded traitors.
    Basically they claimed these people cannot be forgiven.


    All Catholic teaching, What we really teach can be found in the catechism
    http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM

    http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c1a3.htm

    1374 The mode of Christ's presence under the Eucharistic species is unique. It raises the Eucharist above all the sacraments as "the perfection of the spiritual life and the end to which all the sacraments tend."201 In the most blessed sacrament of the Eucharist "the body and blood, together with the soul and divinity, of our Lord Jesus Christ and, therefore, the whole Christ is truly, really, and substantially contained."202 "This presence is called 'real' - by which is not intended to exclude the other types of presence as if they could not be 'real' too, but because it is presence in the fullest sense: that is to say, it is a substantial presence by which Christ, God and man, makes himself wholly and entirely present."203

    1376 The Council of Trent summarizes the Catholic faith by declaring: "Because Christ our Redeemer said that it was truly his body that he was offering under the species of bread, it has always been the conviction of the Church of God, and this holy Council now declares again, that by the consecration of the bread and wine there takes place a change of the whole substance of the bread into the substance of the body of Christ our Lord and of the whole substance of the wine into the substance of his blood. This change the holy Catholic Church has fittingly and properly called transubstantiation."206


    Entries have a number that follow like the 206 above. Which points to scripture or explanation of scripture

    Basically we teach Jesus is completely present body, blood, soul and divinity in the Eucharist.


    "A wicked priest can celebrate Mass and have it still be valid, but a holy lay person couldn't celebrate Mass at all?"

    I'm going to research this. I think the answer is going to be we don't create the Eucharist. Jesus Christ does it the priest is only a vessel I want to say Persona Christi.

    I'll check it out.
     
  17. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki
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    Tell that to all the Baptists that the Catholic Church has killed over the years. The Catholic Church is drunk with the blood of Baptist martyrs.
     
  18. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki
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    You are the one who is lying.

    Let us hear this in the words of a modern Catholic theologian. The following statement is made by a Roman priest well known for his emphasis upon the necessity for personal faith in the exercise of the sacraments, yet he is careful to remind us that the sacraments are as necessary as the faith.

    “In recent years the church has reiterated again and again that we are saved by faith AND the sacraments of faith. BOTH ARE NECESSARY” (J.D. Crichton, Christian Celebration: The Sacraments, p. 65).

    The Catholic Church redefines grace. This confuses many people. When a Roman Catholic priest speaks of salvation through the grace of Jesus Christ, he does not mean the unmerited, free grace of Christ whereby a man is eternally and completely and once-for-all saved from sin when he puts his faith in Christ. By “grace,” the RCC means divine help to live a righteous life.

    Consider the following quote from Vatican II:

    “All children of the Church should nevertheless remember that their exalted condition results, not from their own merits, but from the grace of Christ. If they fail to respond in thought, word and deed to that grace, not only shall they not be saved, but they shall be the more severely judged” (Vatican II, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, chap. 2, 14, p. 337).

    This is a strange kind of grace. It is a grace that does not provide eternal certainty, but only the POSSIBILITY of living up to God’s requirements. It is a subtle and unscriptural MIXTURE OF GRACE PLUS WORKS that is severely condemned in Galatians 1:6-8.

    Romans 11:6 KJV

    [6] And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

    Notice that God says it is impossible to mix grace and works for salvation. We are saved by grace or we are saved by works; it cannot be a mixture of the two as the Catholic Church teaches!


    Bible Answer:

    1. Sacramental salvation is contrary to the examples of salvation in the book of Acts (Acts 10:43: 11:16-18; 14:27; 15:9-11; 16:30-31). The souls that were saved in the early churches were saved once and for all by putting their faith in Jesus Christ. Their salvation was not a process of sacramentalism.

    2. Sacramental salvation is contrary to the teaching of the book of Romans. This book is written expressly to reveal the way of salvation (Romans 1:15-17).

    3. Sacramental salvation is also contrary to the Gospel of John, which was written expressly to lead men to eternal life in Christ (John 20:31).

    The first twelve chapters of John describe Jesus’ ministry to the world of lost men. In these chapters, we are shown by unmistakable emphasis that eternal life and salvation are received by faith in Jesus Christ and faith in Christ alone. “Believe” is the key word in these chapters. See John 1:12; 3:16-18, 36; 5:24; 6:28-29; 7:38-39;8:24; 9:35-38; 11:25-26; 12:36-37. Notice that in all of these verses we are told that salvation is obtained through faith in Christ and there is no hint of sacramentalism.

    4. Sacramental salvation is contrary to the summary of the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. Here Paul summarizes the gospel that he preached, and it is faith in the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. Period. There is no sacramentalism whatsoever. No priests; no church; no works; no sacraments.

    5. Sacramental salvation is contrary to the summary of the gospel in Ephesians 2:8-10. This passage teaches that salvation is a free gift of God’s grace and that works follow as the evidence. This puts everything into proper order and perspective. It is God’s will that men live holy lives, but holy living is the product of salvation and not the way of salvation.

    6. Sacramental salvation is contrary to the summary of the gospel in Titus 3:4-8. This passage also teaches that salvation is a free gift of God’s grace and that works follow as the evidence and product.

    From Wayoflife Encyclopedia.
     
  19. utilyan

    utilyan
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    http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a6.htm

    1782 Man has the right to act in conscience and in freedom so as personally to make moral decisions. "He must not be forced to act contrary to his conscience. Nor must he be prevented from acting according to his conscience, especially in religious matters."53



    If your following your good conscience even against the church, although mistaken in my opinion , its honorable and you are doing the right thing.

    If God tells you to do something we expect you to do it against all odds.


    That said:

    There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church.

    Christ is the head, The church is his body.

    We believe Heaven is very Catholic. You may die atheist...... when you see God you obviously won't be, and when you enter heaven, very catholic.



    The Catholic church is very forgiving about Ignorance. We call it invincible ignorance.
    With God the truth of everything is going to be laid out.
    If it came down to some hot seat judgment day don't be surprised to find us there taking the rap for not providing a better example we could have.

    A tiny motto is : our fault, our fault, our fault.

    Its not a guilt trip thing. If I could see you the way God sees you, you would be my responsibility beyond the realm of reward and consequences.
     
  20. BobRyan

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    Being bashed by "Baptists"??/ -- join the club. In fact if you stick around here you will often find fellow Baptists bashed by Baptists. So I don't know that I would take it too personally.

    (You will notice that I am neither Baptist nor Catholic -- so expect to see me get bashed by both on this board. no matter how neutral my topic... perfect example would be...
    #1 Aug 14, 2016 Last edited: Aug 14, 2016 )

    As for your question take a look at this -

    http://www.christianitytoday.com/gl...stay-strong-us-religious-landscape-study.html
     
    #20 BobRyan, Aug 22, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2016
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