Is a Church of Christ member saved?

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Phillip, Oct 6, 2001.

  1. Phillip

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    I know there are Christians in ALL denominations. No question or complain there. But, here is my question and I would like to see some of you scholars tell me how you feel. Hypothetical situation: I am going to the church of Christ and I feel I need to be saved. I go to the front and pray for salvation, with faith that the Lord will save me. But, in the mean-time I reserve an amount of that faith that I won't be saved until I am dunked. Have I not accepted Christ fully? Through Christ only we are saved.....

    Now, I realize the exception to this would be a person who is under the conviction of the holy ghost and even before he leaves the pew accepts Jesus in his life before he even things of Baptism. Because of this I have no doubt there are Christians in the Church of Christ, but how about the person who has planned this moment, whether convicted or not and reserves that amount of faith thinking all the while he can't be saved until he is Baptised. Is this person a true Christian? :confused:
     
  2. dad_350

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    You have probably heard before, but I wish to say it again, its Christ plus nothing, minus nothing. We cannot add to the finished work of Christ. Its by faith we are saved, faith in Christ, not faith in baptism. We are to obey Christ and be baptised as a believer by immersion. There are verses in scripture, when taken out of context would led one to believe that baptism is required to be saved. However, we must read scripture as a whole and see what the bible says about salvation everywhere. From the O.T. to the N.T. its by faith, and faith along. If one has true faith they will want to be baptised and will want to follow Christ in all things He reqires of us. The sign of a christian is their fruits. The book of James may led some to believe that its works that saves you. But if you read it in context with the rest of the bible you come to the conclusion that works is the result of faith. They go hand in hand. If you have faith, then because of this faith that is alive in Jesus, you will also have works. If we love Christ with our whole heart, mind and soul, all other things fall into place.
    I hope this helps.
    God Bless you.
     
  3. dad_350

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    Phillip, you said....
    Now, I realize the exception to this would be a person who is under the conviction of the holy ghost and even before he leaves the pew accepts Jesus in his life before he even things of Baptism. Because of this I have no doubt there are Christians in the Church of Christ, but how about the person who has planned this moment, whether convicted or not and reserves that amount of faith thinking all the while he can't be saved until he is Baptised. Is this person a true Christian?

    I think you hit the nail on the head about conviction. If a person is convicted by the Holy Spirit, and they trust Him fully, they are saved. If they trust in the finished work of Christ that is. But I think if one has reservation till they are baptised, then they are putting faith in baptism, and that won't save. If you get right down to it, its the Holy Spirit who saves, He must first prick your heart. You can say the sinners prayer 100 times and still not be saved, if the Holy Spirit has not been dealing with you. I think that happens. People put there trust in the prayer that they said and not in Christ, but in the prayer. It must be faith in Christ along.
     
  4. Helen

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    I have a close friend who is in the Church of Christ here in America. I say in America because that title "Church of Christ" is NOT a cult-type denomination in other parts of the world! At any rate, his daughter had made a profession of faith and then her baptism was postponed due to flooding in their neck of the woods. He called me in a panic about her salvation. We talked a long time and he began to understand that the Bible is correct when it says God judges the heart.

    He is a dedicated Christian. I have zero doubts about that. He is saved. His heart belongs to the Lord hook, line, and sinker. He has since had other conversations with me and has mentioned that although he knows I am right, and that baptism is not necessary for salvation, this church is where he was brought up and where his family goes (and, evidently, where about half his small town goes as well!). He is staying there because he knows it and is comfortable there.

    It is not my place to judge him. I know he is teaching his girls from the Bible, that he and his wife have a strong and dedicated marriage, that he is one of the few honest businessmen anywhere, that his heart is one of the biggest in the world, that he depends on the Lord for everything....

    God meets each of us where we are. He approaches each of us in the mileau and culture that we are in. And some of us are in pretty strange places!

    Nevertheless, with the refusal to use any musical accompaniment in their church, their girls sure can carry a tune!
     
  5. Chris Temple

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    We are saved by grace, through faith. Being baptized has nothing to do with salvation, and neither does "going to the front". Many Baptists condemn the salvation-by-baptism doctrine of the CoC (rightly so), but then practice their own version by doubting their own or someone else's salvation because they "never walked the aisle".

    No one - NO ONE - has perfect theology at the moment of conversion. Their heart is pricked by the Holy Spirit, they are convicted of sin, they turn to Christ and repent. How many people understand the Trinity at conversion, or the kenosis of Christ, or the meaning of propitiation, etc? So one can be saved and still hold to error of belief. In Acts we are told that Paul asked the Ephesian disciples "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit." Acts 19:2 (ESV)

    The test of true belief is really how does one accept and learn the necessary doctrines of the faith once they are taught to them? When taught of the Trinity, and atonement, eternality of Christ, etc, do they adhere to them as precious truths or do they reject them in favor of heresy? The true believer, taught by the Spirit, will embrace the great truths of Christianity as the precious pearls they are. False professors will reject the truths of the faith.

    If someone maintains, after making a profession, that anything is necessary for salvation outside of faith in Christ as Lord and Savior, then they must be corrected. And if they reject correction, then they may not have ever truly believed. This is one important reason that Baptists should affirm the professions of faith of new "beleivers", but hold off on assuring them of their salvation, and cease to add them as notches on their evangelism belts of "new salvations last night at the youth rally".

    The proof of salvation is in the pudding - pudding which is fruit flavored.
     
  6. Brother Adam

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    "I am going to the church of Christ and I feel I need to be saved. I go to the front and pray for salvation, with faith that the Lord will save me."

    "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Romans 10:13

    "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption in Christ Jesus: WHom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past through the forbearance of God." Romans 3:23-25

    Remember that salvation is of the Holy Spirit and not our own intellectual capacity to understand how the Holy Spirit brings us to Christ. We cannot save ourselves, and the correct understanding of conversion is saving ourselves. We are then relying on us to have the correct understanding when instead it is God who saves us.

    I believe that someone can be saved without holding to Baptist doctrine.

    "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and greatest commandment." Matthew 22:37-8

    Until Next Post, Adam
     
  7. ellis

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by flyfree432:

    I believe that someone can be saved without holding to Baptist doctrine.


    Until Next Post, Adam[/QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    No kidding? You'd better be careful or they'll banish you to the non-Baptist forums!
     
  8. ellis

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    The Church of Christ (I assume we are talking about the Campbellite, Non-Instrumentalist variety here) believes in verbal, plenary inspiration of the inerrant, infallible Bible and in a literal, verse-by-verse interpretation. Their most frequently quoted defense of their belief that Baptism is an essential element of salvation comes from the Baptism of Jesus. Why, they say, would Jesus be baptized if it wasn't a necessity? Their arguments with Baptists on this issue are the subject of a number of books written by C of C authors. One of the most interesting that I have read is by a preacher from Kentucky named Harold O'Keefe entitled "What's Wrong With Baptists".

    O'Keefe argues that if you take a literal interpretation of scripture, then you cannot get around Mark 16:16, "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved.

    The Church of Christ, of course, denies that there are any signs accompanying the filling of the Holy Spirit. Pentecostals counter that view by quoting from the same passage, Mark 16:17-18, "And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.

    If I take this literally, then I should be out there starting a church that baptizes believers instantly after their profession, uses no musical instruments, speaks in tongues, has snake-handling altar calls and healing services, right?

    Oh, by the way. My apologies for quoting from the NIV. It's the only Bible I had handy.

    I might also add that I believe that the Church of Christ and Pentecostals are legitimate, Bible-believing branches of the true Christian faith.

    [ October 06, 2001: Message edited by: ellis ]
     
  9. Joey M

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Originally posted by flyfree432:
    I believe that someone can be saved without holding to Baptist doctrine.


    Until Next Post, Adam[/QB]


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    No kidding? You'd better be careful or they'll banish you to the non-Baptist forums!
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Hehehe!
    I have to agree with Chris, Not many of us knew that much about God or His Word when we were converted. The Spirit guides us in those things after conversion.
    "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast."
    If it is not of myself then wheather I believe baptism had anything to do with it or not is insignificant. So long as I believe that Christ died, shed His blood, was buried and rose again to save me.
     
  10. Phillip

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    Good answers, as few I didn't seem to get a complete conclusive answer, but I think I get the drift.

    Let me make my feelings clear here and why I asked the question. I do NOT believe you have to be a Baptist to be saved and never intended anybody to think that, nor was the Baptist doctrine part of the question.

    The ACTUAL specific question IS (and I'm going to clarify it again just in case) that if I accept the Lord with a "condition" waiting for that baptism as part of my faith, have I diluted my faith and removed the Jesus is the only way part?

    I agree with Helen's assessment of her friend--no doubt there and no doubt many, many C of C members are saved....NO DOUBT. But, could it cause a problem for some if their faith has a reservation? That's really the ONLY question involved here---not the plan of salvation or the faith in the Lord and redemption through grace, etc. etc.

    I also agree with the statement of walking the isle. Never believed it, never will, in FACT. A person can be pricked by the Spirit and just turn their life over without a conscious prayer. -- Just a conscious acceptance of Jesus, etc. I think sometimes we tend to use the sinners prayer just to make certain that the person understands exactly what they are really doing. It helps spell it out and praying for forgiveness and salvation never hurts even if the person was saved the minute they answered the "call" of the Spirit.

    Just wanted to make sure I was clear as to the question--that it did not involve the mechanics of salvation, but only the reservation of faith while understanding that I am not saved until I am dunked.
     
  11. Dr. Bob

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    If a person repents of sin and trusts Christ alone for salvation, I would say this is evidence he is truly regenerated.

    If he trusts Christ + works (baptism, good deeds to "keep" his salvation) he has not truly trusted Christ.

    But, having said that, there are a lot of folks who have really screwed up theology out there who are genuinely born again. Remember, GOD does the saving. He sees the heart and knows true repentance and faith.

    My seminary prof said he was saved and lost and saved and lost 100 times since he was first saved at age 12. But, he continued, that was in his OWN mind; not God's. God saved him back at age 12, and he just didn't know it! His church teaching just confused him into a miserable christian life for the next dozen years.

    Let's allow for some confusion since we aren't God and can't see what "really" happened in the heart.
     
  12. Michael Wrenn

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    Bob,

    Right! We all "see through a glass, darkly."
     
  13. Brother Adam

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    Well put Dr. Bob! Thanks.

    Until Next Post, Adam
     

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