Is Baptism Necessary for Salvation?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by TaliOrlando, Nov 16, 2008.

  1. TaliOrlando

    TaliOrlando
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    Is Baptism Necessary for Salvation?

    I know a couple of people who tell me that even if a person accepts Jesus as their personal saviour, they are not saved until they go through the baptism. I am baptised but is this true or false?
     
  2. Havensdad

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    Personally, I like using Biblical language. So>

    We are born again, when we repent, and place our trust in Christ for the forgiveness of our sin. Baptism is not necessary. We are saved APART from water Baptism.

    Lets look at some verses:

    Mark 16:16: “He that believes and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believes not shall be damned.

    Question: What does the verse say brings damnation? Answer: Unbelief.

    #1 Jesus told the repentant thief, “Today shall you be with me in paradise” (Luke 23:43). The thief was saved without baptism.

    #2 In Acts 10 Cornelius exercised faith in Christ and was clearly saved prior to being baptized in water. The moment Cornelius believed in Christ, he received the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:45).

    #3 Paul separates baptism from the gospel, saying, “Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel” (1 Corinthians 1:17). It is the gospel that saves us (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1,2); therefore, baptism is not what saves us.

    #4 Acts 2:38: “Then Peter said to them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”

    To properly understand Peter’s meaning, we must consider the phrase “for the remission of sins” in light of its usage, its context, and the rest of Scripture.

    The word “for” (eis) can mean either “with a view to” or “because of.” In the latter case, a person would be baptized because he had been saved, not in order to be saved.

    People are saved by receiving (not rejecting) God’s Word, and Peter’s audience “gladly received his word” before they were baptized (Acts 2:41).

    Verse 44 speaks of “all that believed” as constituting the early church, not all who were baptized.

    Those who believed Peter’s message clearly received the Holy Spirit before they were baptized. Peter said, “Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Spirit as well as we?” (Acts 10:47).

    #5 Jesus referred to His baptism as a work of righteousness (Matthew 3:15). But the Bible declares clearly that salvation is “not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit” (Titus 3:5).

    #6 Not once in the entire Gospel of John, written explicitly so that people could believe and be saved (John 20:31), is baptism noted as a condition of salvation. Rather, this Gospel instructs people to “believe” to be saved (John 3:16,18,36).

    It seems best, therefore, to understand Peter’s statement like this: “Repent, and be baptized, as a result of the remission of sins.” That this view looked backward to sins being forgiven at the moment of salvation is clear by the context and the rest of Scripture. Believing or repenting is often mentioned with being baptized, since baptism should follow belief. But Jesus does not say in Mark 16:16, or anywhere in Scripture, “He that is not baptized shall be damned,” but instead states emphatically “he that believes not is condemned already” (John 3:18). Nowhere does Scripture make baptism a condition of salvation.

    The above material was taken with permission, from the "School of Biblical Evangelism" www.biblicalevangelism.net , Lesson 47
     
  3. Tom Butler

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    The short answer is no.

    Those who say yes will cite Acts 2:38 (Repent, and be baptized for the remission of sins..._), Mark 16:16 (He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved..")

    Here's the problem: Those scriptures must be interpreted in the light of other clear scriptures which teach just the opposite. One would think that any scripture that deals with how to be saved would always mention baptism. Not the case.

    Here are a couple of examples:

    Acts 16:32 (Paul to the Philippian jailer "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou wilt be saved."
    Romans 10:9 "If thou wilt confess with thy mouth that Jesus is Lord, and shalt believe in thine heart that God has raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
    Romans 10:13 "Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord will be saved."
    Acts 9:17-18 (Ananias says to Paul) "Brother Saul..." He called him brother. V. 18 "...arose and was baptized."

    Then, of course, there's the thief on the cross.
     
  4. SpiritualMadMan

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    In Short NO

    The same type one scripture argument is by the Exterme Pentecostal Cultists who preach you can't be saved unless you speak in tongues...

    They use the Scripture,
    Forgetting all the other scriptures, like the Ephesian **BELIEVERS**.

    So, in both cases, the answer is NOT so.


    But, something to consider, many secular or cult-filled countries understand the symbolic significance of Water Baptism. Such that a person can attend church, and say they believe anything.

    But, once they are Baptised in the Christian Faith the persecution starts and some families even have a funeral for the person, even though they are still alive.

    If you haven't been Baptised, by immersion, as (at least) a Symbolic Act of your own Death, Burial and Ressurection in Jesus Christ... You should do so at your earliest oppurtunity.

    Mike Sr.
     
  5. trustitl

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    I am inclined to say that the short answer is yes. The long answer would need to help people understand that baptism does not necessarily involve water. All that is needed is: 1) a baptizer 2) a baptizee and 3) an element to be baptized into.

    With that understood we can see what baptism is needed for salvation:
    1) the Spirit of God
    2) a believer in Christ
    3) Christ

    Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection Rom. 6:3-5

    For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
    Gal. 3:26-29
     
  6. EdSutton

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    Well, this is a good start, I'd say.

    Just as when one is a batter in Baseball, one hit out of three is not bad! :thumbsup:

    I agree that the "short answer" given by trustitl is correct, here, in one sense, as far as it goes. I would offer that this is one out of three "real" baptisms [as opposed to a 'figurative' baptisms, in water (There are at least three such 'figurative' baptisms, in water, presented in Scripture), including Christian baptism (Ac. 2: 38, 41 ;8:12, 36, 38 ;10:47-48)] that are indeed "necessary" for our salvation.

    1.) Baptism in the Holy Spirit is a definite requirement for salvation, in this 'church age', as the poster has already pointed out, albeit absent verses. (Mt. 3:11; Mk. 1:8; Lk. 3:16; Jn. 1:33; Ac. 1:5; 11:16; I Cor. 12:13)

    2.) However, I disagree with his particular take on the two passages he quotes. I'd suggest that this is another baptism, that is "necessary" for our salvation, namely that of our being baptized into His (Christ's) death. (Rom. 6: 3-8; Gal. 3:27-29)

    3.) There is a third baptism, also necessary for our salvation, and it is actually, the most important one, IMO, namely the 'baptism into His own death' of our Lord Jesus Christ. (Lk. 12:50)

    Let me add that trustitl is absolutely correct in one thing. Most people, including believers who should know better, cannot even see the word "baptism" in Scripture, apart from "getting wet." :laugh:

    However, that idea is what is Biblically, what is "all wet." ;)

    Ed
     
    #6 EdSutton, Nov 16, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 16, 2008
  7. trustitl

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    Not quite sure how you see any disagreement with me and my "take" on the passages I quoted. I didn't even comment on them.

    When we are baptized into Christ we are baptized into His death so I don't quite get what you are saying.
     
  8. billwald

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    Person "invites Jesus . . . " and on his way to ask his pastor about baptism gets hit by a bus and dies. He goes to Hell?
     
  9. Havensdad

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    #1 Never in scripture are we told to "invite" Jesus to do anything: we, are told to repent and trust.

    #2 Although a person can be saved by this "soft" preaching (just "invite Jesus into your heart") he won't DEFINITELY be saved.

    #3 If He has truly repented and put His trust in Christ, He will indeed go to Heaven: for at that moment of truly repenting and trusting, He is "baptized into Christ" by the Holy Spirit.
     
  10. billwald

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    OK, person repents and trusts. On his way to his baptism he gets hit by a bus . . . .
     
  11. EdSutton

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    I see a difference between being "baptized in the Spirit", by which we become a part of, or are 'placed' into the church, the body of Christ, and the baptism "into Jesus Christ," by which we are 'baptized into His death.'

    You offered the Scriptures of Rom. 6:3-5 and Gal. 3:26-29 in what appeared to be a rolling of these two baptisms together into one. I just happen to disagree with this take.

    The oft-quoted passage, some attempt to support this with, and found in Eph. 4:4 is not really helpful here, IMO, considering the context and subject is the body, which is the church, and the specific baptism that makes one a member of that body, is indeed the baptism in the Spirit. (I Cor. 12:13)

    However, this baptism in the Spirit, is only valid for the church. The OT saints never experienced such a baptism, and neither will the Tribulation and/or Kingdom saints, yet to come. Yet all them were and/or will be just as certainy saved, as any of us are.

    I would offer that we are "baptized into Christ", hence "baptized into His death, by faith." This is slightly different from being "baptized in the Spirit," nonetheless.

    Gotta' run.

    Ed
     
  12. Havensdad

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    Absent from the body, present with the Lord.
     
  13. saturneptune

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    Well, if he lives, he goes to the hospital. If he dies, he goes into the presence of the Lord.
     
  14. Crabtownboy

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    Born and grew up a Baptist and was taught that .....

    Baptist by immersion is a beautiful public symbolic act showing what has already taken placed and that is; death of the old life, burial of the old life and resurrection to the new life in Christ.
     
  15. hawg_427

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    Ask those people to show you in the Bible where it is commanded by the Lord to be Baptized. It is not REQUIRED. I wonder what else those people that told you that believe in. Hmmmmm!

    God Bless and remember always back everything up with scripture,
    Hawg
     
  16. DHK

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    Matthew 28:19-20 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
    20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

    There is a command to baptize.
    The command is given by Christ.
    The command to baptize is a requirement; it is required that a person be baptized.
    It is not required for salvation; it is required for obedience after salvation.
    The baptism spoken of here is with water, by immersion, lest anyone seems to be confused.
     
  17. Zenas

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    And what happens to you if you don't obey the command to be baptized?

    Does it matter whether the failure to obey is wilful or merely out of neglect either on the part of the newly saved Christian or his mentors?

    What if the baptism is not by immersion but by pouring or sprinkling?

    What result(s)?
     
  18. Tom Butler

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    1. Nothing. You will remain in disobedience; You also may not take the Lord's Supper, at least in my church.

    2. Doesn't matter. You're still unbaptized.

    3. Then you're not baptized. The Scripture explicitly commands immersion.

    4. See 1 through 3.

    Now that you know the truth, what keeps you from being scripturally baptized and joining a New Testament Church?
     
  19. Zenas

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    I guess I stopped asking before I was out of questions. I don't completely agree with your answers but they do accurately portray the Baptist position, a position I have known very well since I was baptized in a Southern Baptist chuch in 1958.

    My next question should have been, "Do you go to hell for not being baptized, for whatever reason, or for being sprinkled after becoming a believer?

    For what it's worth, Tom, the Baptist church where I now serve would be very comparable to the largest two Southern Baptist churches in your county, highly inclusive and not too particular what you believe as long as you contribute faithfully don't become a trouble maker.
     
  20. DHK

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    Tom's answers are correct. You remain in a state of disobedience as long as you disobey the Lord.

    The Bible says to "Rejoice evermore." Do we do that--all the time.
    "Give thanks in everything"--How about that one?
    "Let no corrupt communication come out of your mouth."
    "Be ye doers of the Word and not hearers only."
    Matthew 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
    --Spoken any "idle words" lately?

    There are many commands we break, and no doubt on a daily basis.
    Baptism isn't the only one. But it is a very important one.
     

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