Is Bart Ehrman Saved In 'Hodges-Wilkin' Theology?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Maestroh, Jun 20, 2008.

  1. Maestroh

    Maestroh
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    Let's go from the general to the specific.

    Is professing agnostic Bart Ehrman - who explicitly denies EVERY cardinal doctrine of the Christian faith - a Christian in Hodges-Wilkin theology?


    He has had 'the experience.' He has 'professed faith' in Christ for his salvation.


    Is Bart Ehrman saved in such a worldview?


    PS Don't hide behind the old 'it's not right for us to judge.' We are talking about someone who EXPLICITLY has denied and renounced his prior faith.

    Is he saved?
     
  2. Crabtownboy

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    I am glad that I do not have to make the decision on who is and who is not saved. I figure God will do that and do it well, farily, and with justice. I have enjoyed reading several of Bart Ehrman's books and watching his lectures on early Christianity on DVD ... and I was saddened when I heard that he say he can no longer believe in the traditional Christian view/belief in God.
     
  3. Deacon

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    Ditto Crabby

    Now Maestroh, a question for you;

    Do you think Hodges, Wilkin are saved according to biblical theology? :smilewinkgrin:

    Rob
     
  4. Maestroh

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    So You Avoid The Question?

    Keep in mind that this is not a problem for me - it is a problem for those who limit salvation to having had a so-called 'experience' and later renounce the faith.

    If it's not one's job to determine who's saved, is it their job to provide assurance to the rejector?
     
  5. Maestroh

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    I Hope Then You Will Be Consistent


    I hope in light of your comments that you will never tell anyone else, "Sure, you're saved, it's just the devil making you doubt."

    Btw - I can admire Ehrman's scholarship and still realize that he is a virgin with no oil.

    Are you trying to tell me that someone who EXPLCITLY REJECTS what Christ said about salvation and isn't even sure of the existence of a God - that there's somehow a doubt in your mind about the state of that one's soul?
     
  6. jdlongmire

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    1 Corinthians 5

    12b...Do you not judge those who are within the church? 13But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.



    If Erhman is still in a church, he should be put out and shunned for his apostacy, that is the extent of our judgement. It is a tacit statement that he is not of the faith. Then let God judge Him.


    Salvation belongs to the Lord.
     
  7. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
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    I think you should answer Deacon's question.
     
  8. queenbee

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    This is a just a little aside - CTBoy - happened upon Ehrman's 'Misquoting Jesus' book the other day in the bookshop. Have you read and do you recommend??

    And for JDLongmire....can't say with 100% certainty, but from reading the back pages in appendix of same book, was led to believe that Ehrman has no church affiliation of any kind.
     
  9. jdlongmire

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    Probably worth reading if you are developing an apologetic - here are some rebuttals and review resources.
     
  10. preachinjesus

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    This is a HUGE conversation to have and I think we do well entering it with caution and spiritual prudence.

    Dr. Bart Ehrman's salvation is definitely something I wouldn't want to be having to determine...that is why it is best left to God to know. I would say that he what he has done to the Gospel and Scriptures (not the same thing) is quite henious and very difficult to reconcile from an orthodox Christian perspective. He should be cast out of any Christian bookstore and church he might himself in and our people be warned that he has left the pack of faithful believers and is dangerous.

    Dr. Ehrman did come out of a strong, evangelical background and went to Moody Bible Institute and was quite faithful until he went to graduate school. Then he began wrestling with some difficult questions. Clearly now he says he isn't a believer (even though his wife is a strong Christian who has stayed with him during his struggles.) His spiritual stuggle has been a long time coming, but he has been only been forward about it recently.

    I don't know if Dr. Ehrman is or ever was a Christian. I deeply struggle with that question and can't reasonably answer it. While I accept and believe completely in eternal security of true believers (I don't buy fire insurance Christianity) Dr. Ehrman's case presents one of the more reasonable points about someone who has tasted the heavenly gift and walked away if there ever was one. It deeply pains me, and I struggle with this topic. :)

    great convo btw :)
     
  11. jdlongmire

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    Reckon Erhman would "confess with his mouth that Jesus is Lord and believes in his heart God raised him from the dead?"

    Scripture is fairly clear...
     
  12. Martin

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    ==Well, since he once believed I suppose that they would have to say he is. Of course anyone who holds to a Biblical view of eternal security would quickly realize the error of Wilkin/Hodges. While eternal security is true it is also true that true believers do not walk away from the faith.

    What is so very sad is that according to Wilkin's crossless gospel not only is Bart Ehrman saved, so is Marcus Borg, John Crossan, and John Shelby Spong. Each of them believe in Jesus yet they deny the substitutionary atonement and the resurrection. These are things which Wilkin has directly stated that a person does not have to believe in order to be saved. So, according to the heresy of the crossless gospel all of these people may very well be saved. This is just part of the danger of the crossless gospel.
     
  13. queenbee

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    Many thx - I'll follow up on this.

    qb
     
  14. pinoybaptist

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    All I can say is that none of us here, no man wherever and whenever he existed on this planet, was with God in eternity past when He planned the salvation of a people whom He foreknew, and I have never seen in Scriptures where it says that whoever He redeemed He redeemed on the basis of their theology, their vast knowledge of Scriptures, their expertise in the Hebrew or Greek languages, their kindesses, goodness,righteousness, or anything else by which we measure people and say "he's saved", "he's not", "him, oh, well, what do you think" ?

    I do know that Paul wrote to Titus, "not by works of righteousnesses which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us". Also, that he quoted God's reply to Moses as Moses interced for Israel, and God's reply was "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and compassion on whom I will have compassion".

    I do know also that by and large, in the Bible, when salvation is mentioned to those who are already in the churches of those times, it has to do with being saved from false doctrines, false theology, false creed, unrighteous generations, and so on, which makes me think that as far as Paul was concerned, and also the other writers, the eternal salvation of God's people is no longer in question.

    What they are trying to separate those in the churches from are philosophies that gratify the flesh rather than exalt Christ.
     
  15. Martin

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    ==We don't have to make the decision, you are correct. However God, through His Word, has given us evidences that should appear in a person's life if indeed they are saved. What evidences? Things such as perseverence in the faith (Col 1:21-23, Jn 8:31), righteous living (1Jn 3:9-10), doing good works (Eph 2:8-10), and having a changed life (1Cor 6:9-11). People who don't have such evidences should not think they are saved (Eph 5:5-6).


    ==If you enjoyed Ehrman's book and lectures (etc) then you must think he has a lot of good points? Well, sometimes he does but most of the time he does not. Some of the things he says about the Bible, Jesus, and the Apostles is historically and theologically incorrect. You should spend some time reading NT Wright, Paul Barnett, and scholars such as that.

    As for his unbelief, he has been that way for a number of years.
     
  16. pinoybaptist

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    does anybody know why Ehrman "changed his mind" and "unsaved" himself ?
     
  17. TCGreek

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    I invoke 1 Cor 12:3.
     
  18. Bob Alkire

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    If I understand your question, I would have to say yes. I don't think Hodges, Wilkin or even a Bob Thieme, Jr would disagree with an answer of yes.
     
  19. Crabtownboy

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    Queen, I read "Misquoting Jesus" in 2006 while at the seminary in Prague. I found it a fascinating book, well researched and well written. So, yes I recommend it. I remember in the preface, I believe it was the preface, he told of his own growing up. After high school he went to Moody Bible Institute. From there he went to Wheaton College and then to Princeton.

    It was interesting, when people at Moody heard he was going to Wheaton they told him not to go there as, to them, Wheaton was too liberal and there were few Christians at Wheaton. When he graduated from Wheaton and told people there he was going Princeton he was told, Princeton is too liberal, there are almost no Christians there.
     
  20. Crabtownboy

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    From Wikipedia:
     

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