Is Biblish More Spiritual Than Plain English?

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Rippon, Nov 3, 2013.

  1. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,410
    Likes Received:
    328
    I saw this somewhere on the internet. I didn't write it. You can google to find out more.

    A pasor in some church says before a church meal:"Hey,ya'll shush now. I'm fixin to pray for this here food -- Our Father we beseech that in thy kindess..."

    The internet post went on to say:"Somewhere along the way people started to believe that 17th century British was a more spiritual way of speaking."

    What do y-o-u think? (As William Hendrickson used to do in his commentaries when signifying plurals.)
     
  2. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,410
    Likes Received:
    328
    I'll be the first to respond to my own post.

    I think it is kind of silly though sincere. Speakers that use KJV-type language,especially Americans, appear kind of absurd. It is so radically different from their natural way of speaking. The Lord is just as attentive to prayers that are in standard English --perhaps more, because there is no artifice involved. Folks think that not only do they need to dress up in their Sunday-go-to-meetin' clothes --but clothe their prayers with artificial garb as well.

    What say ye?
     
  3. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,410
    Likes Received:
    328
    Mods: Feel free to move this thread to another location if necessary.
     
  4. Van

    Van
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    9,516
    Likes Received:
    49
    Just the opposite. Speaking using the same words as found in your Bible, rather than in your heart, adds artifice. Like a used car salesman who, if he sees a fish or dove on your car, sprinkles his speech with "Lord" and "bless." Rote phrases such as "in the name of Jesus" without understanding the concept adds nothing. We are pray for what Jesus would pray for, as presented by what we know of Jesus.
     
  5. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,386
    Likes Received:
    790
    Praying scripture and praying with thee's and thou's are not the same thing.
     
  6. Baptist4life

    Baptist4life
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2007
    Messages:
    1,460
    Likes Received:
    0

    You asked, so I'll tell you. I don't know. I know D. James Kennedy prayed like that all the time. Pretty Godly man, if you ask me. You think God didn't hear his prayers? You think it was all for show? I know a lot of Godly men (and women) who use "thees and thous" when praying. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. I never gave any thought to the insinuation in your OP. I don't think any of them were trying to impress God, me, or anyone else. Never even once thought they were "clothing their prayers with artificial garb". They were just praying.

    I think it's just your bias against the KJV, and another way for you to try to put down the people who use it. Mocking the way people pray now, rippon? Frankly, I think you ought to be ashamed. What's next from you? :tear:
     
    #6 Baptist4life, Nov 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2013
  7. JonC

    JonC
    Expand Collapse
    Lifelong Disciple
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    6,984
    Likes Received:
    373
    I think that we need to communicate within our own language and dialect - otherwise we create a barrier to understanding the Word of God. But we also need to do so in reverence and be ever mindful of Who it is that we are “beseeching.”

    I think that the post is right. This applies to me more with music, as I don't pray in KJV dialect. I would prefer to sing “Have thine own way Lord” than “have your own way Lord,” but I am not sure why. I cringe when we sing “Fill My Cup” because “want no more” is changed to “overflow.” I know the reason is that the older version can be mistaken to mean we want no more of God’s blessing and overflow is clearer in contemporary speech.

    Probably (for me) it is tradition in that I learned the songs with antiquated words and associated the language with worship and reverence. But there is notable difference in our worship service when we sing an older hymn after singing more contemporary songs.
     
  8. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,121
    Likes Received:
    0
    I pray in the ESV's language.
     
  9. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,410
    Likes Received:
    328
    Hear,hear!
     
  10. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,410
    Likes Received:
    328
    Funny you should ask. I will surprise you B4L.
     
  11. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,410
    Likes Received:
    328
    For those of you in KJV churches --not necessarily KJVO:

    Have you ever heard a prayer in your assembly that was not in KJV-style?

    About what percentage of your music is contemporary --say 1970 to the present.

    Of your older sacred music,what percentage was made before the 19th century?
     
  12. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,410
    Likes Received:
    328
    For those of you accustomed to hearing KJV-speak in public prayers within your church --Do you use that kind of language in your private prayer life?

    If you ever heard a public prayer in-person or on Sermonaudio.com that did not employ 17th century English --would you think he was lacking in reverence?
     
  13. InTheLight

    InTheLight
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    16,272
    Likes Received:
    620
    Was in a KJVO church for several years decades ago, was in a KJV-preferred (probably a KJVO) for the past three years before leaving this summer.

    Nope, never.

    None of it.


    Hmmm...Other than the classic standards like "Holy, Holy, Holy" or "A Mighty Fortress is Our God" probably none.
     
  14. InTheLight

    InTheLight
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    16,272
    Likes Received:
    620
    Nope.

    No, of course not.

    At my previous church I got kind of a guilty pleasure out of the preacher stumbling through public scripture reading of the KJV (he had a bad habit of pronouncing immortality as 'immorality') and inwardly snickered when their prayers were filled with thee's, thou's, thine's etc.
     
  15. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,121
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's been so long ago I can't recall, but now when I hear someone pray that way now it sounds rather odd and it doesn't seem to fit.

    One deacon recently prayed and broke out in the NLT language while doing it though.

    40%?

    Dunno.
     
  16. Baptist4life

    Baptist4life
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2007
    Messages:
    1,460
    Likes Received:
    0



    Jeremiah 6:16

    New King James Version (NKJV)

    16 Thus says the Lord:

    “Stand in the ways and see,
    And ask for the old paths, where the good way is,
    And walk in it;
    Then you will find rest for your souls
    .
    But they said, ‘We will not walk in it.’


    :thumbs::thumbs:
     
  17. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,121
    Likes Received:
    0
    So that is a proof text to support praying in 17th century English and to rebuke those who don't?
     
  18. Baptist4life

    Baptist4life
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2007
    Messages:
    1,460
    Likes Received:
    0
    I was just joking about the old songs and old music. Never once did I "rebuke" anyone for praying in whatever manner they want! Seems rippon is rebuking people for using "thees and thous" when praying. Read my former posts, I said I've heard some people pray that way at times, and at other times they don't. I never "criticized' them for praying one way or the other, nor did I "snicker" while they were praying! Frankly, as I said before, this entire thread is a ridiculous, backdoor bash towards people who still use the KJV, sing old hymns, and pray the way they want to, IMHO. I'm sure God is pleased that you all are making fun of the way people pray! I really don't think He cares too much HOW you pray, but He loves the fact that you are praying.

    I attend a church where we sing old songs, new songs, in between songs, where people sometimes pray using thees and thous, sometimes pray using modern English, sometimes pray using both. We use the NKJV, KJV, NIV, ESV, NASB, and various others.

    What we DON'T do is mock, laugh, "snicker", or make fun of people who are praying, no matter how they pray, or what words they use. Heaven help you all, you should be ashamed.
     
  19. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,121
    Likes Received:
    0
    No, you weren't joking when you quoted that verse as a rebuke of others. Your real feelings were seen in it and below. If you do something make certain that before you do it you have the wherewithal to stand up for it. I've seen this behavior (that same verse) used by KJV advocates as a rebuke for years.

    That said, tell me the purpose of your verse above (I already know what it is, and the reason for the underlining &c) but I would like to see you put some other spin on it, or better yet, admit you used it to rebuke others.

    You do see using it in the way you have is out of context and has nothign to do with the KJV, correct?

    Good for you. Why do you defend yourself as never having snickered about it?

    I don't see it that way. What I DO see is YOU bashing.

    Now you're losing even more control of yourself. Nowhere did I poke fun at ANYONE.

    Good for you. What's your point?

    And that is EXACTLY what I said in the beginning, that you WERE in fact using the text as a form of rebuke, and you still continue to rebuke. I've made fun of no person in this thread, you should learn to not level charges where they are not due. You should be ashamed for doing so.
     
  20. InTheLight

    InTheLight
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    16,272
    Likes Received:
    620
    Au contraire. When people deviate from normal conversational English to address God as if He exists in the 17th century, they are putting on airs, and praying with flowery language. They may think it is reverential, but IMO, it's silly. Do you think for a second that if Jesus were here on earth today he would speak in language that was 300-400 years old? Then why do people pray that way in public?

    And yes, God does care HOW you pray, and not just that you are praying, otherwise why would Jesus give multiple instructions in how to pray? See also condemnation of the Pharisee in Luke 18 for not praying correctly.
     
    #20 InTheLight, Nov 4, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 4, 2013

Share This Page

Loading...