Is Glorification Certain for the Justified?

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by franklinmonroe, Aug 12, 2014.

  1. franklinmonroe

    franklinmonroe
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    KJV Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
    Is there any question that those whom become justified will be eventually glorified by God? Can under any circumstances a truly justified person not reach glorification?
     
  2. JamesL

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    If you look at what Paul said, he starts with those who God foreknew. He's simply charting the path for the Elect, not for every believer.

    It's like saying the winners of the World Series played little league ball, then high school ball, then college ball, the professional ball, then won the World Series.

    Nobody would understand that to mean every single kid who plays little league ball is going to be a World Series champ.

    By the same token, nobody should understand Paul as saying every believer will be glorified. This is the glory which was bestowed upon Christ because He suffered death (Heb 2:9-11)

    Notice the same language in Hebrews and Romans. The firstborn of many brethren, and He is not ashamed to call us brethren.
     
  3. Rippon

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    But the elect means every believer. They are synonymous.
    The foreknown, called, predestined, and justified are all of the same group --and that collective group will all be glorified as Romans 8:29 -30 demonstrates. To deny the obvious is seriously wrong.
     
    #3 Rippon, Aug 12, 2014
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  4. Iconoclast

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    :thumbs::wavey::applause:
     
    #4 Iconoclast, Aug 12, 2014
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  5. JamesL

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    It only seems to demonstrate that when it is isolated from the context of 8:14-12:2

    Paul didn't have a series of disconnected thoughts, he was greatly expounding what Jesus taught in Matthew 10
     
  6. franklinmonroe

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    First, your answer to the OP question is "No"; you think that the justified (believers) are not guaranteed glorification (which I think to be a perfected sinless spiritual body).

    Second, how do you think the "elect" are different from other believers? You do not seem to equate the terms "elect" with those who are justified/saved. Do you think there are those that are justified but are not "elect"? I would guess that you think that the "elect" are justified. So in your view, what is this special status of election that only some believers have?
     
  7. franklinmonroe

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    This sounds a bit more like what I have come to know as the process of Sanctification, rather than Glorification. That is, new believers start out not knowing and practicing everything that the Scriptures teach but as they mature they (hopefully) learn and apply the commands of the Lord in their lives. It is the progression of striving to become holy.
     
  8. franklinmonroe

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    You have answered "Yes" to the OP question; that is, every one who is indeed justified will ultimately be glorified. No exceptions?
     
  9. JamesL

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    There are two ways to understand sanctification, being set apart. First, every believer has been set apart to God, a member in the body of Christ. Then we are called to be set apart unto maturity, the process of learning to be led by the Holy Spirit. Following Christ's example in suffering our will to the glory of God. See 1Peter 2:20-21

    The end of our maturity is glorification, where we are not put to shame at His coming. Christ will share His inheritance with the "sons" of God. See Rom 8:17

    Those who have left everything here will receive many times more in the life to come, and will receive eternal life. See Matthew 19:28-29 (I think). This is not eternal life in the sense of going to heaven, it's an inheritance. Colossians 1:24 tells us plainly that our inheritance for faithfulness. *gasp*.... works "salvation". Compare Matthew 10:22 to 2Tim 2:12. Whoever endures to the end will be saved. If we endure, we will reign with Him. That's what Rom 8:17 says. 8:14 says whoever is led by the Holy Spirit is a "son"

    Paul used 2 different words in Romans 8, distinguishing between"children" and "sons". Teknon versus Huios. We are all children through faith in Christ. But not all will be sons of the Kingdom. See the Beatitudes

    Those who God foreknew as sons, He predestined to be confirmed to the image of Christ.

    He knows the end from the beginning. He doesn't gave to look through time to see who would, He knew His sons from the beginning.
     
  10. Yeshua1

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    And we believers also groan, even though we have the Holy Spirit within us as a foretaste of future glory, for we long for our bodies to be released from sin and suffering. We, too, wait with eager hope for the day when God will give us our full rights as his adopted children, including the new bodies he has promised us.
    Romans 8:23 Nlt

    ALL who have been saved will experience the resurrection of their physical bodies to being glorified!

    God has ONLY glorified saints in Eternity, not some have it, and others still in their normal forms!
     
  11. franklinmonroe

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    I appreciate your response to my second reply post. As much as I'd like to discuss your comments on sanctification, I won't here and now in order to preserve the topic of the OP.

    However, I would like to see you briefly and directly respond to the questions I posed in the my first reply to you.
     
  12. franklinmonroe

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    So far, there has been one "No" response and one "Yes". I'd really like to see some more input from others.
     
  13. OldRegular

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    Well said, my belief exactly.
     
  14. franklinmonroe

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    It seems you have answered "Yes" to the OP question.

    After over 140 views there have only been 4 responders. Why is that? Is this a difficult question?
     
    #14 franklinmonroe, Aug 14, 2014
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  15. franklinmonroe

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    It seems with the term "ALL" you have answered "Yes" to the OP question.
     
  16. Yeshua1

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    Bible states that ALL found by God in Christ wille xperiencing that state, so how can it be only some of the saved?
     
  17. franklinmonroe

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    KJV Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
    Basically, the same question as the OP but stated in a slightly different ways --
    Will all those that are to be glorified have been already justified? Is there a 100% correspondence between glorification and justification? Could some one be glorified that had not been previously justified?
     
  18. Rippon

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    Absolutely.
    Completely.
    Of course not, it's an impossibility.

    The truthfulness of Romans 8 is a tonic for the soul. I would want someone to read it to me on my deathbed.
     
  19. franklinmonroe

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    KJV Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
    So then, if all "whom he justified" are certain to be glorified can we also expect that all those that are predestinated are "them he also called"? Is there any exception to God's "called" ones being predestined? Could an individual be called without being predestined first?
     
    #19 franklinmonroe, Aug 16, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 16, 2014
  20. JamesL

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    Are you only looking for answers from a Flip-a-Coin perspective? Or do you actually have a desire to understand what the scriptures actually mean?

    I only ask because you weren't interested in seeing how this issue connects to sanctification. Seems that you may have an A or B mentality, when neither of those is the biblical answer
     

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