Is Hell Real Already ?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by pinoybaptist, Dec 9, 2003.

  1. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
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    There is a teaching being taught in the airwaves right now, which says that hell is not at the moment an actual place but will soon be. The rationale is that since God is a God of justice, He cannot and will not confine the wicked to a small hell and then transfer them over to a bigger lake of fire after judgment day, since the wicked must first be judged and found guilty.
    Therefore, this teacher says, the wicked, when they die, go to a place of silence to await the last trump and from thence to stand before the great white throne of Revelation 20.
    This teacher maintains that the parable of Lazarus and the rich man is just that- a parable, and that hell is the condition of being unsaved and under the wrath of God.
    What say ye, brethren ?
     
  2. timothy 1769

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    It seems rather unusual that a character in a parable would be given a name. Are there any other examples of this in Jesus's teachings?

    In any event, there is fire in hell:

    Mark 9:43
    And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
     
  3. Daniel David

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    Except that the name was common. It is even more unusual to believe that hell has a landline to heaven and can just pick up the phone. :rolleyes:

    It was a parable, but the description is quite real. We don't know all of the exact state of hell. The lake of fire will be the final place of judgment though.
     
  4. timothy 1769

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    Originally posted by Daniel David:
    Except that the name was common. It is even more unusual to believe that hell has a landline to heaven and can just pick up the phone. :rolleyes:

    I guess so, but if Jesus says it that's plenty enough for me.
     
  5. ScottEmerson

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    I always understood the parable to be a description of Hades before the death of Christ, with a Paradise and a place of torment. The actual lake of fire doesn't seem to be a place where the lost go until right after Satan is thrown, according to Revelation.
     
  6. Daniel David

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    Agreed. So when Jesus is giving us a parable, I believe it is a parable.

    You see how childish that is?
     
  7. timothy 1769

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    Agreed. So when Jesus is giving us a parable, I believe it is a parable.

    You see how childish that is?
    </font>[/QUOTE]Granted I am pretty childish (or childlike) when it comes to believing Jesus and his teachings. There simply is no proof that this is a parable. If Jesus called this a parable, of course we should believe him. But that's not the case. Your opinions about how the afterlife should be run do not limit our Lord, who does as He pleases. Such assumptions can, and likely have led you into errors.
     
  8. Helen

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    I don't think the story of Lazarus and the rich man was a parable. I think it was real and Jesus was telling us something very important.

    First of all Abraham is speaking. There is no other parable where a biblical patriarch is speaking.

    Secondly, Lazarus is NOT in heaven. ("No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven -- the Son of Man." John 3:13 cf Hebrews 11:39-40))He is in Paradise, or Abraham's Bosom. Jesus says there was a great gulf fixed between Paradise and that anteroom (if you want to refer to it that way) of hell where the rich man was. This obviously did not preclude communication.

    In Matthew 25:41, we find that there is an indication that hell has already been made. Jesus uses the past tense when He says "...the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels..."
     
  9. BrianT

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    Just a side note: a fable is a story that teaches something, but the elements of the story are untrue or impossible (talking birds, etc.). A parable differs from a fable in that the elements of the story in a parable are possible and true. All the literally elements of all the parables can/did literally happen (a man buying a field, a woman searching for a coin, seeds falling on stony ground, etc.) Christ spoke in parables, not fables, and thus not only is the truth/moral/teaching that Christ presented via the story true, but the story *itself* is also true. Again, that's the difference between a parable and a fable.

    Brian
     
  10. timothy 1769

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    Another view:

    PAR'ABLE, n. [L. parabola; Gr. to throw forward or against, to compare to or against; as in confero, collatum, to set together, or one thing with another.] A fable or allegorical relation or representation of something real in life or nature, from which a moral is drawn for instruction; such as the parable of the trees choosing a king, Judges 9.; the parable of the poor man and his lamb. 2 Sam. 12.; the parable of the ten virgins, Matt.25.

    Webster's 1828
     
  11. pinoybaptist

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    Thanks for the input, y'all. But seems like you centered in on the parable instead of the rationale that the guy offers.

    What do you think ? Is hell already a literally existing place ?

    Is he right that there could not be a literal hell yet because no judgment has been passed on the wicked ? That is, the resurrection of the wicked according to Rev. 20, has not occured yet, therefore God will be unfair and unjust to send the unsaved immediately to hell ?
     
  12. Sularis

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    Hell is physically real

    I think he's not quite understanding the different 'timelines' of earth and heaven

    When you die you jump ahead a few thousand years to the judgement

    Assuming Apocalypse is a few thousand years away -

    There will be a time when heaven and earth "sync" up timewise in that time will have a foothold in the timeless - until the new heaven and new earth come again and time and death shall be no more
     
  13. Don

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    God is just in all things, no matter what we think about it.

    Heard a man the other night that said there is more than one hell: one that the rejecters of God go to, and one that we go to while we're all waiting for the judgment.
     
  14. Me2

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    God is a God of Justice AND Mercy. He kills all human flesh because of sin and saves all human souls because of his mercy.

    unless you believe Jesus Christ wasnt sacrificed for all men. and that he didnt defeated all powers against mankind. and that he being a man wasnt resurrected from spiritual death. (He was a man right?)

    God is a God of Justice..All men are condemned to spiritual death. But did you ever notice that spiritual death is not a place without God ?

    Hell is a condition whereas a CHRISTIAN exists without CHRIST. a reprobate that desires to play "antichrist". believing he has no need of the True Christ, and also believes he can please God while Living under a set of Laws. One who Blasphemes the work of the Holy Spirit.

    this is one whom God has given his seed to, yet the follower that while in spiritual death doesnt recognize the need for a savior. one who believes he has the power to receive "eternal life" by living under the law successfully. or one who changes Gods methedology unto salvation. one who doesnt die to self efforts.

    the wicked in "spiritual death" act more wicked by imagining God as a brutal judge unless some strict Laws are followed. they are always in fear of failing to follow the law, or God will "forsake" them, or that if they make a mistake and do not follow the laws correctly or long enough. they will lose their "salvation".

    although since hell is a condition whereas man forsakes Christ. He is always near.

    Hell is real, yet not literal. it is a spiritual environment created "within the mindset" of the reprobate christian.

    the parable of The Rich man and lazarus is a story which correctly interpreted describes the difference of the OT Jews living under the law and not receiving Eternal life in their day to day lives.
    and the Gentiles Who accept Jesus Christ as their propitiator and receive eternal life in their day to day lives and rest from their labors.

    a disturbing twist that few recognize. Every human being is in spiritual death from the day they were born Physically. (the story is based on receiving reward in spiritual death.)

    ...and the lake of fire is not further torment. It is salvation and rest. it is a delivery mechanism that brings life to death. and love to those in fear. and forgiveness to the unforgiven.

    or is it become a literal existence also. seeing that it is tucked inside a vision received by a man in a spiritual trance.....

    Me2
     
  15. RaptureReady

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    I always wonder, how can you believe in Heaven if you don't believe in Hell? Hell is real folks. When you die without Christ, YOU WILL GO TO HELL!
     

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