Is Hope of Eternal Life Bound to Faith?

Steaver: Here it is again.........."they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."

HP: Stay focused for a minute. Do not jump from passage to passage pulling one verse out of one context to prove something else in another that the context does not by itself support. Where, in the verse in question, does it say or imply that they never once had faith or that they had never believed in Christ? Would you simply admit the truth in that one cannot use this passage in any way to support the notion of OSAS? If not, you have your work cut out to show us plainly from this passage otherwise.

After we look truthfully and fairly at this passage we can look at the other one you mentioned.

 

HP: I believe I did treat that passage fairly. I am not alone in my assessment of the passage. Have you ever read Adam Clarke on the passage? Just a suggestion.

Where, in the following verses, does it say or imply that they never once had faith or that they had never believed in Christ?

HP: I ask the same question again of both of these passages. Where, in the verse in question, does it say or imply that they never once had faith or that they had never believed in Christ?

 

Steaver: Clarke has said exactly what DHK and I have said. Are you mistaken and thinking of another commentator?

HP: He does seem to take the line of reasoning you and DHK do in the verses you quote from him but seems to deviate from that to the line of reasoning I have set forth in his comments on verses 14 which is still speaking directly of why Paul laid down the rules that he was laying down. Clarke goes on to say, “verse 15. For some have already turned aside] Some of these young widows, for he appears to be still treating them, are turned aside to idolatry to follow after Satan instead of after Christ. Slight deviations, in the first instance, from a right line, may lead at last to an infinite distance from Christ.” I comment that no one once a believer can still be classified as a believer when on a path that leads to an “infinite distance from Christ.”

Clarke also quotes a Dr. Macknight saying “But the young widow reject, for when they cannot endure Christ’s reign they will marry: incurring condemnation, because they have put away their first fidelity.” Clarke makes it clear that simply marrying is not wrong, but “it is a sin in every case to be idle persons, gadders about, tattles, busybodies, sifting out and detailing family secrets, etc.

One can draw any conclusions one so desires, but I believe the truth of the matter is when one stops following Christ and start following Satan, to believe one can still be in possession of a certain hope of eternal life, is to be deceived. “He that is not for me is against me.” “Mt 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
Lu 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.”:

No one can be at the same time following after Christ having turned aside and be found to be following after Satan. “Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:”

 

Steaver, I also note that in the Biblical Illustrator the author, commenting on these verses, makes clear mention of the fact that Paul must have been painfully aware that some in the Church at Ephesus “had already fallen into the evils to which he refers, having lost their first simple faith in Jesus Christ, and their former consecration to Him.”

I would conclude that although in part you are correct in what you are saying, you still seem bent on refusing to acknowledge the end to which this failure of consecration must invariably lead of which the apostle is warning about, i.e., a falling away from, a loss of, a turning away from, the faith in Christ they once had which will eventually lead to their separation from God. Adam Clarke again mentions that separation from God as an ‘infinite’ separation.

 

HP: Can you point to one place I have ever said that one can lose their salvation? I so, show the list the quote. If you cannot, could you please retract your statement until such a time as I do say that or you understand my position, which ever comes first? Thanks.

 

Let me explain to the listener the problem we are facing with the text in 1Ti 5:11 But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry;
12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.

There are two not one issues at stake here. Steaver would like there to be only one issue, and tries his best to paint the others view in the most unfavorable light, laying great stress upon the his own words of ‘losing ones salvation’ not found in the text or in anything I have written.

It is true that no one ‘has lost their salvation’ (using Steavers words) in verse 11 or 12, but what Steaver refuses to see is that Paul is laying the groundwork for his comments in verse 15. 1Ti 5:15 For some are already turned aside after Satan. Here again no one, not Paul nor I, say that one has lost their salvation, neither does it say that any have a hope of salvation. Steaver is busy erecting paper ducks to shoot at or straw men he believes he can easily destroy.

In this life we walk by faith. The OP asks the question as to whether or not one can entertain a certain hope of eternal life without faith. Here we see Paul stating that not only does the distinct possibility exist that one can cast off their faith in Christ, but also that some indeed have to the point of following hard after Satan.

I would ask Steaver once again if in fact one can entertain a certain hope of eternal life subsequent to casting off ones faith? If so then is he not establishing his belief that one does not have to be currently exercising faith in order to be in a right relationship with God, and in essence is inferring that one can walk 180 degrees opposite of faith, casting away their faith and following after Satan and still be counted worthy of the Kingdom? If this is not a license to sin and do despite the spirit of Grace what could there be? If this is not a purely antinomian doctrine being espoused by Steaver, what again could be?

What about these verses? Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Mt 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
Mt 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Who can be a follower after Satan, casting away ones first faith, and still be found worthy of Christ and as such be classified as a member of God’s Kingdom? Steaver evidently would have us to believe these widows could. I believe Scripture teaches directly to the contrary.

 

HP: Then how would you say that one can cast off something they obviously are not in possession of?

 

HP: The question I believe is mute, due to the fact salvation consists of three parts, not simply one, believing. Although it is true that we enter into the hope of salvation by repentance and faith, that is not all there is to being saved. We must continue in the faith until the end and then stand before the Judge of the Universe to be judged. Not until we pass from that hall of judgment will our eternal salvation no longer be by faith. It will then be that our faith will turn to sight and from that point onward we will live and reign with Christ for eternity. So you see, salvation is thought of in three tense not one. We have been saved, we are being saved, and we will be saved. I believe one can enter into a hope of eternal life but fail to persevere and at the judgment be found without an Advocate. At that moment the faith one once had will not be sufficient to realize a final abode with Christ, having cast of ones first faith as proven out by the works by which every individual will be judged.

In the here and now it is not that we have 'lost our salvation,’ for it is not over till it’s over. The question is not whether I have lost my salvation in the here and now, but rather the question should be, will I be found in Christ in the last day on the path I am currently on.

To answer again as directly as I can due to the way you worded the question, I do believe one can repent and turn to Christ in faith, yet cast away their faith and remain in an unrepentant state until the end and be judged apart from Christ at the judgment.

 

HP: Ye MUST be born again. To be born again is to be have fulfilled the conditions God has set forth for the remission of sins and to be restored by faith to a right relationship with him. When we are born again and experience the forgiveness of sins that are past, the Holy Spirit indwells our spirit and testifies to our spirit that we are children of God.
Quote:
HP: Then how would you say that one can cast off something they obviously are not in possession of?

HP: And why not? When we cast off our faith in Christ we cannot be said to have faith at one in the same time. Either we have faith or we have cast off our faith. If you cast off a garment can it be said that you are at the same time wearing it? To cast off is indeed to discard, to have a complete change of heart in regard to ones faith. Nothing can be clearer.

HP: ‘Either you are for me or you are against me.’ There is no setting aside of ones faith as you proclaim without rejecting ones relationship with God. ‘Mt 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.’ No devotion, no faith. No faith, no relationship. No faith, no certain hope of eternal life. With no faith, it is impossible to please God.