Is Hyles Anderson College A Sensationalist School?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Seeker Of Truth, Apr 5, 2005.

  1. Seeker Of Truth

    Seeker Of Truth
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    It appears to me that some who graduate from Hyles are sensationalist. I heard Bob Gray - a hyles graduate sometimes while preaching gets on people's faces and grab their ties asking them if they are going soul winning. What is it about this college? Their shallow in theology but huge in evangelism. I think they give a bad name to free grace advocates like myself. Has anyone notice this when they have visited a church modeled after Hyles Anderson. They like to keep stats(numbers)on how many are saved and baptized.
     
  2. HappyG

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    Seeker of Truth,

    You are correct in your observations about HAC. They are a shallow, numbers driven, man-oriented organization.

    Do a little research on their websites and you will hear and see some pretty amazing things.

    They are KJV Only. Which I can understand certain people holding that position because they may have never interacted with the original languages. But for a school with supposed professors to not be able to see through the KJV Only myth and heresy is rediculous.

    But just listen to the preaching of Jack Schaap and you will hear lots of "man" and very little God and even less good expository preaching.

    And you will find a governing principle that says "good numbers means God's blessing."

    20,000 people led to the Lord by the the youth group of 300 kids. What happens to all those new converts?

    And the rediculousness goes on and on!
     
  3. Scott J

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    I visited 2 churches in the Atlanta area pastored by Hyles guys.

    Both were "1-2-3 pray after me" types on evangelism... "just get them to say the sinner's prayer and move on". They had a very "notch your belt" attitude about "soul winning".

    The larger of the churches ran about 800 or so on Sunday morning including a significant bus ministry. From the pulpit one morning, the pastor proclaimed that they had baptized 14,000 converts the year before... I looked around and wondered where they all went.

    The smaller of the two had some young teenage boys come in to do street evangelism. One testified that as four of them were riding around boy #1 "got one" then #2 "got one" then #3 then #1 again... then he said "I just had to get me one too. I saw an 8 year old boy playing beside a motel and approached him. We asked his mother if we could talk to him about Jesus and she said yes... well, he got saved so I go one too". (or words very close to that effect)

    It sounded more like sport than evangelism.

    Another time boys from one of the churches cornered a drunk man in Walmart and harassed him until he apparently said the sinner's prayer then claimed him as a convert.

    Both churches were militantly KJVO. The pastor of the larger one said from the pulpit that the KJV corrects the Greek.
     
  4. Soulman

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    Posted by ScottJ: Both churches were militantly KJVO. The pastor of the larger one said from the pulpit that the KJV corrects the Greek.

    Sounds like shades of Ruckmanisim crept in.
     
  5. Dr.Tim

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    Ok, and now you see the problem of fellowship with churches that you dont feel are presenting the gospel right?
    I went to a missions conference one time in Florida (1980s early 1990's cant remember) and there were some from that school who had professed multitudes being saved and their numbers were much huigher than the rest of us. I dont know if that is genuine or not.. but I always play it on the safe side and I just dont like the emphasis on numbers and stats. I dont want to sound critical, just want to make sure it's understood you cant say none of them are saved or all of them are saved. Just HUGE numbers being cited at the conferences. HUGE. I led about 15 deaf to the Lord over a three year period. This one guy stands up and has quoted from, the past three years an average of 300 saved each year !!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  6. Pastor_Bob

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    What is wrong with this practice? I can tell you how many were saved and baptized in our church every year since I became pastor.

    Apparently numbers is a big deal to God; He named an entire book "Numbers."
    How many were saved on the Day of Pentecost?
    How many did Jesus feed with the 5 loaves and two fishes?
    How many did Jesus feed with the 7 loaves and a few fishes?

    There is nothing "sensational" about keeping good records; the sensationalism comes from the methods one uses to attain these numbers.
     
  7. Dr.Tim

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    I think pastor Bob is correct and I dont have a problem with it. The problem lies in the fact that everytime something becomes a norm for being announced, folks like to exxagerate and give bloated stats.
    One of the churches I attended had a soul-winning program that awarded those who led the most people to the Lord. I was opposed to it simply because (and this is relative I guess) the maturity of our people would possibly cause them to witness for the award and not for the sake of the lost soul.
    We had problems from the beginning and one time I was witnessing (with my youth director) to a young deaf man who was really smart and understood the gospel... was under deep conviction. In the next room was one of the younger Christians who was trying to witness to a man who I would say is borderline mentally retarded.. There was some commotion outside the building and both the youth director and I had to leave the room and handle that. When i came back, the young Christian had taken the intelligent student from my room and swapped me with the young intellectually challenged deaf kid. I was enraged because I knew he was getting nowhere with the less intelligent kid and took the smarter one and led him to the Lord. When i confronted the Christian about it, he told me that he was trying to win as many as he could for the Soul-winner's award.
    So, although I think announcing results is quite common and ok, we need to be cautious and make sure we all understand that honesty and motive need to be kept in check.
    tim
     
  8. AVL1984

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    Pastor Bob is correct. There is nothing wrong with keeping track of the numbers. Uh...isn't there a Bible book by that name? Didn't God go through all the trouble of listing geneologies, etc.?

    I believe the problem comes in when we don't accurately account for these numbers, as was and still is the case at HAC. Many of those who were saved have made MULTIPLE salvation decisions that have been counted over and over and over with no genuine conversion, or a least a lack of understanding of what salvation truly is. I do have a problem with HAC/FBCH in their approach of 1,2,3...Pray after me decisions and no true follow up or discipleship. I've been there many times and have seen this first hand.
     
  9. Christlifter

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    I am indignant! I am being angry, but not sinning!

    I Cor. 1:11-31
    Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.


    Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

    For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.


    For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

    For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

    For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
    But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

    For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
    That no flesh should glory in his presence.

    But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
    That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.


    What I do NOT like on this thread, is those who give uncharitable, graceless, prideful and spiritually immature (like the Corinthians?) "one-up-it-ness" (Pharasical?) speech about Greek and Hebrew and all their inflated "understanding" MAN'S WISDOM, who "seem" (but I don't know for sure) to lack the experiential knowledge of the death of His Cross and the power of His ressurection, to do the work of God in His power!

    Phil. 1:4-6
    Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
    For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake. And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost.

    Are you operating in the Spirit of Christ or your own deduction? Do you think you have all the answers in your dead, however orthodox faith, which is a mere mental assent and shell of the truth, the letter without the Spirit, given by your "logic" because some greek or hebrew teacher gave a lessons on being a snob?

    I'm not judging, I'm just sayin':

    Not ALL KJ people are like the repentanceless, man-centered, antinomian doctrine and IFB group in discussion. Those who continue to downtalk and belittle those who beleive that the Textus Receptus and the Masoretic Text both are God's Word, are not less or better than yourselves.

    DO NOT keep assuming!

    Brethern we have met to worship and adore the Lord our God! Not to fight and nitpick!! Rightly divide the Word of Truth, not each other!

    Because of Christ and for you, Calvary was for you and me, I loved you because he first loved me(and that is the reason we all ought to love Him!)

    Bro. Brandon
     
  10. Christlifter

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    Whoops!!! Sorry about that! Wrong thread!!!!

    (You guys can use this for topic material though!)


    cut and paste time

    bro. Brandon
     
  11. Dr.Tim

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    yeah, i was wondering what you were thinking
    Put your post in the "Preacher Boy Challenge" forum.
    :0

    [ April 06, 2005, 11:36 PM: Message edited by: Squire Robertsson ]
     
  12. Christlifter

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    I apologize, but if you think I was goofy in my thinking maybe you should re-read the post.

    Thanks and have a great day!

    [ April 06, 2005, 11:37 PM: Message edited by: Squire Robertsson ]
     
  13. Bartimaeus

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    I am not by any means a Hac(ker)! I pastored 14 miles south of Hammond and I know the shipwreck that goes on there. BUT,.....I regret that some do paint with wide brush on this board. I am KJVonly, yet I am not in the numbers game with the "baptist rosery" nor am I in the Mr. Ruckman camp.
    Maybe someone could define "sensationalist" then we could have a decent non name calling thread. I hope it would proceed with a little wisdom and not the sensationalism used to decry the Hylesites.
    Thanks ------Bart
     
  14. Dr.Tim

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    bartimaeus... your english is over my head. I am not really good with English as my true language is sign language. I dont really understand what you want..taking a wild guess...sensationalism.. HMMMM. Stretched stories, over-emphasis on dramatics..etc.. bloated numbers. I guess thats how I would explain "sensationalism".
    I personally am a very dramatic preacher because of the language being a pictoral language as opposed to a verbal word-sentence language.
    I have seen folks come in and copy their favorite preachers and were excessive in some ways.
    I saw Richard and Oral Roberts in the 1980's and I thought that was sensationalism.

    tim
     
  15. Dr. Bob

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    I appreciate Pastor Bob coming to defense of his alma mater. But I'll be honest, he is the EXCEPTION, not the rule, of the product of HAC. I commend the good grads who are genuinely serving God APART from the sensationalism, pulpiteering, gimmick and nonsense they witnessed in their training.

    But I have met few who attended there that got a quality collegiate education and didn't get tainted by the horrendous doctrinal errors (1-2-3-pray-after-me, no repentance, salvation using KJVonly or NOT saved (no kidding - Jack Hyles taught that extreme a KJVonly position), pastor dictator, etc.

    Out here in our neck of the woods, HAC'ers come and go. When they find that Wyoming churches are small and building a BIG church here would be 200 or so - far below the expected norm of HAC.

    Anyone interested in folks recovering from the abuse of HAC and other similar type schools should visit the FundamentalistForums.com and chat with "survivors".
     

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