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Discussion in 'Forum for Polls' started by Ed Edwards, Nov 30, 2005.
Is it a Lie or No Lie?
CHECK ONLY those which You consider a lie.
One of the most common problems is the violation of the commandment " Thou shall not bear false witness.
This is not necessarily a lile but to spread false witness is to act as if you know something but you really do not.
It could be hearsaay or something that you think might be true but are only assuming.
A common expression is an old wives tale. that is false witness.
Ok, I'm haing trouble now opening the polls so I can see it and vote.
If you do something to purposefully give an impression that is different from the actuality, then it's a lie. However, candidness and discretion are typically not lies. They're typically a respect for privacy, be it one's own or another's.
I agree with Johnv.
The options are not exactly clear cut. I suspect you intended it that way .
"If you imply things which are untrue:" It seems to me that God, in having Joseph go on and marry Mary, already with child, created the implication that not only was Joseph the father, but that the child was conceived in sin. And certain scriptures do indicate this did follow Jesus and served, among the 'legalilsts,' to discredit Him. But so far, 94% say it is a lie to imply what is not true (I am one of 2 so far who did not check that one). So-- did God lie by His chosen setup here?
"If you don't correct a misconception:": See above paragraph; whether a pun is involved is the reader's choice.
Also, how does this one apply to coloring one's hair, wearing some type of 'shaping' device under one's clothes, or a woman who has had a mastectomy wearing a prosthetic bra?
"If you just don't answer:" Only 2 have checked this one so far, but as I mentioned, these answers are not clear-cut. Many questions are inappropriate. Certainly many questions on these forums go unanswered, but is that lying?
"If you hide your past to get a job:" Definitely too vague-- "if you hide...." Do you have to give a list of all the things in your 'past' which could be a mark against you as a job applicant? "I got drunk, just once, at a fraternity party 15 years ago"... "I got a job when I was 13 picking apples, but was fired for eating one on my second day" ... "On a job 5 years ago I dated a coworker, but we split up and decided we couldn't work together any more" ...
"If you say 'I wont' discuss the matter':" We can probably ignore a single check on that one. If it is honest, then let's not discuss it .
I have a conviction against lying, so often what I struggle with is telling the truth in a misleading way. And I'm not even in politics.
Good Post, Alcott
Yes, Good post Alcott is right!
I was going to say some things like Brother
Alcott said, but real life reared its
ugly head his week. I'm not at liberty to tell
how just exactly how right now
But I will say it has to do with a
Widow/Deacon Christmas Fellowship on
I was interested in a news report this week, I think from Houston. A woman called the fire department several times because her cat was stuck in a sewer pipe. They wouldn't come.
She then called back and told them the literal truth. "My two-year-old Baby is stuck in a pipe." (not direct quote)
The cat's name really is Baby.
So the fire dept roared over there and did a rescue, thinking it was a child.
Now the woman has been charged with a misdemeanor.
In one way she told the literal truth, yet it was told in a deceptive way. She will probably pay enough in fines that she will wish she had just called Rotorooter to begin with.
On the other hand, I don't see a need to correct everyone's potential misconceptions about everything. I just bought a different car 3 months ago. It is in great shape and we got a REALLY good deal. It is no big secret what we paid, and I actually have mentioned it to some in a general discussion about cars.
However, when friends notice my car and compliment me on it, I usually take that as a general polite comment, not a need or desire of theirs to know specifically what we paid. I suppose some of them will think we paid more than we did. But I'm not intending to deceive, it makes no practical difference to them, and not automatically disclosing every personal detail does not make it a lie.
Also, you can't read people's minds and tell what they think. Every polite comment does not need to be interpreted as a burning curiosity in which the person will spend all kinds of time wondering about you. And even if it is, they have a problem.
People know there are good deals out there.
Likewise with some jewelry I have. I bought some really cheap, nice-looking fakes on ebay.
I just bought them because they were cheap so no catastrophe if I lose them, and they look pretty.
I'm not trying to deceive anyone. Yet if someone compliments me on a ring, I take it as a polite comment. Not a need for me to explain everything in exhaustive detail. But sometimes I have said, "Yes, it does look nice. I got it for $20." LOL
Here are the latest results of the Poll:
Poll Results: Is it a lie? (52 votes.)
Is it a lie?
if you imply things which are untrue? 88% (46)
if you don't correct a misconception? 52% (27)
if you just don't answer? 10% (5)
if you hide your past to get a job? 71% (37)
if you say "I can't discuss this matter" 8% (4)
(just want to check the results) 17% (9)
Note that an average of 2.5 votes per person have
been cast. Of course, in past polls i've found out
that some people don't notice they can vote more
Karen: //I bought some really cheap, nice-looking fakes on ebay.
I just bought them because they were cheap so no catastrophe if I lose them, and they look pretty.
I'm not trying to deceive anyone. Yet if someone compliments me on a ring, I take it as a polite comment. Not a need for me to explain everything in exhaustive detail.//
Amen, Sister Karen - You are RIGHT ON!
Likewise if someone asks "how are you" they
usually want a short summary like "fine" or "not too bad" not
the same data you give your insurance company or your doctor.
Please pray for me, I'm having an operation Monday morning, 5 Dec 2005.
Pray it will be as successful on the left side as the
similiar operation I had on the right side. Yep, the
inside of my Big Right Toe has had no hang nails for like
3 years now since the
Well, you know 'minor operation' is when they cut on you;
'MAJOR OPERATION' is when they cut on me
This sort of fits here...
I have now shamelessly sometimes begun "tricking" my kids into eating their veggies.
One of their favorite dishes is my "green mashed potatoes." Instead of adding food coloring, the interesting green tinge is accomplished from grinding still-frozen mixed veggies in my coffee grinder and adding them to the potatoes. Kids will eat almost anything if it is some sort of odd color.
Today I did the same thing to their spaghetti sauce.....they didn't even notice, in fact they seem to like this sauce better than the way Ive made it before.
Now don't get after me for not just telling them to eat everything....I do that too. But I sometimes need a break......
Do you think thats lying? Id tell them if they asked. In fact, the older ones found out about the mashed potatoes one, but they like it now already, so they can't complain. lol
I think is deceiving, which can be different than lying. And sometimes the ends really do justify the means. Especially when it comes to Broccoli!
No (and I think we all agree on that). WHY isn't it a lie is important. God did not imply anything, He told the people who needed to know, the exact truth. Other people, however, inferred the wrong thing and that was their fault. All they had to do was ask Joseph and Mary and I am sure they would have been happy to tell them.
Then you should be one of the 8 (out of 60 at this time) who did not check the first option.
I am not sure I understand you. I did vote that it would be a lie to imply something you know to be untrue. I then stated that God did not imply anything untrue, So, why would I leave it unchecked???
Alright, if you know of a kid which was conceived, or born, of a woman who is unwed at the time, then you assume it might be a virgin birth? It is a logical conclusion that that is not so (ain't it?). So, what could anyone who saw Mary and Joseph have assumed? If God has chosen to make it plain to anyone that this was a virgin birth, He could have done something to make that come about, but He did not, for instance, force Mary to live in a glass cage her whole life with no one but female guards around. I don't think there is any avoiding that God set this up to imply that Joseph was the father of Jesus, which was untrue, therefore a lie to anyone who checked that first option. As for your previous advisement that anyone could "just ask" Joseph and Mary... yeah, right.
To a more relevant subtopic of this, how about the woman who has had a mastectomy and wears a prosthetic bra implying to anyone who sees her, and doesn't know, that she has not had such a procedure? According to you, this must be lying; therefore, sin.
Every single bit of knowledge is not every other person's business.
I do not have to wear a sign that says "I had a procedure that gave me a scar and it's right here!" with a big red arrow pointing "wherever."
The information is just no one else's business. This is not deliberately implying something that is untrue.
Giving Jesus a legal father in the form of Joseph is not a deliberate implication of a lie. Joseph was his father, the same way an adoptive father can call himself the "father" of his adopted child. It's not a lie to adopt a child....you are willingly deciding to take on all the responsibilities of raising that child.....you are simply getting a child that has already been born instead of "making" a new one.
Whether it's anyone else's business or not, if you have had an anatomical change which would 'show' unless you deliberately disguised it, that is creating an implication that something has not happened which has happened.