Is it a sin to vote for a pro-abortion candidate?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by trying2understand, Oct 14, 2004.

  1. trying2understand

    trying2understand
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    Some Catholic Bishops have said that it is a sin to vote for a candidate that is pro-abortion. The logic being that abortion is a sin and an extension of that is helping another to obtain an abortion is a sin. By voting for a pro-abortion canidate that will help to fund abortions and help to make it easier to obtain an abortion, we are in effect helping someone obtain an abortion.

    The Bishops do not come out and say, "It is a sin to vote for candidate so and so.", rather they frame the disscussion in the context of the obligation of Christians to form a mature conscience. That would include taking a look at the natural consequence of our actions.

    The natural consequence of voting for someone who promotes abortion is that by that vote one is promoting abortion oneself.

    The arguement is further developed that one does not look at one issue only, such as abortion. Other issues of morality such as war, poverty, health care, the death penalty, and so on, are also to be considered. Proportionality being the key. For example, one must weigh the moral gravity of abortion against the moral gravity of failing to assist those in poverty in deciding on which candidate to cast your vote.

    The Catholic Church has clearly stated that abortion is far and away the more grave moral matter and thus must be considered above all else.

    The logical and, in my estimation, correct conclusion is that voting for a pro-abortion candidate is a sin.

    What do you think?
     
  2. tragic_pizza

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    I think that you believe this to be true.

    I'm not sure I want to vote based upon what other people tell me is important. I tend to hold capital punishment, and my opposition thjereto, in as important a position as my opposition to killing the unborn. Thus I cannot find a candidate whom I would vote for based solely upon those issues. So I find the candidate most clearly favorable toward the totality of my views, and what I percieve as best for the city, state, or country, depending upon the election in question.

    Usually I have to do so while holding my nose against the stench.
     
  3. Pennsylvania Jim

    Pennsylvania Jim
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    You get what you vote for, at least as a group. When you vote for someone, it is good to remember that you will hold responsibility for what they do, and fail to do, if elected.
     
  4. Pete

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    I refuse to be an accomplice to them.
     
  5. jet11

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    Equating killing innocent children with capital punsihment (killing convicted criminals) is a huge mistake in my opinion.
     
  6. tragic_pizza

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    I'm sure it is, in your opinion.
     
  7. Bro. Curtis

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    Is it a sin to bypass what bishops say, and go straight to the Lord ? After all, bishops sin. I don't know about how it works with RCCers, but I know when I sin.
     
  8. Bro. Curtis

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    BTW, nice to see you, Ron.
     
  9. Bro. Curtis

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    I think it would be a sin to not vote. I also think, that in the interest of good stewardship, that prayer & scripture reading would be prudent, before deciding who to support.
     
  10. music4Him

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    Well I tell ya I don't know out of the two canidates I got to vote for... that I would pick either... if I have to go by their morals and personal beliefs. The one that I want to vote for...his pick for vice Prez. will not be a good thing for the county if anything happens to him. The other canidate is the oppisite I like the choice of vice prez. Too bad we can't vote seperatly and vote in the VP? Guess thats why we have write ins huh? LOL
     
  11. Johnv

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    Is it a sin to vote for a pro-abortion candidate?

    Hmmm....

    Is it a sin to vote for a non-Christian candidate? Is it a sin to vote for a candidate that was baptized as a baby? Is it a sin to vote for a candidate that is a woman?

    He among us who is without sin, let him cast the first vote [​IMG]
     
  12. trying2understand

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    I was hoping that someone would respond to the line of reasoning.

    Let's break it down.

    1) Is abortion a sin?

    2) Is it a sin to help someone else obtain an abortion?

    3) Does voting for a pro-abortion candidate help others to obtain an abortion?

    4) If so, is voting for a pro-abortion candidate a sin?
     
  13. Johnv

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    The Bible is silent on the topic. We must defer to implication. Generally, I would think that elective abortion is a sin.

    Since I believe elective abortion is a sin, I would presume that, if I assisted someone in having an elective abortion, then I would be an accessory to the sin.

    This is where the slippery slope begins. It is a sin, for example, to take the Lord's name in vain, even if it's in the privacy of one's home. I would not favor a candidate that wishes to make taking the name of the Lord in vain in the privacy of one's home a crime. The practicing of non-Christian religions is a sin, imo. However, I would not favor a candidate who would seek to outlaw the practicing of non-Christian religions. Slavery is a sin, yet would it have ben as sin for a Christian to vote for Thomas Jefferson?
    As per my previous comment, no.
     
  14. BobRyan

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    If you vote for Hitler do you REALLY have to share in the responsibility for his following up on his convictions while running for office?

    If you vote for Jim Jones do you really have to share in the responsibility for his leading and misleading after he gets in office the SAME way he did while running for office?

    Sure he may claim to be war criminal. And his word may be notorious world wide as worthless and sure our enemies may install him on their own wall of heroes, and sure he may protect the right of all americans to kill the unborn... but come on! Surely you are not going to let the voter who puts him in office share in the guilt of such a deed!

    Right?

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  15. trying2understand

    trying2understand
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  16. Jesus is Lord

    Jesus is Lord
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    For me a vote is an "Amen" to what the candidate wants to achieve. I donĀ“t think that I will ever agree with everything a candidate has on his agenda. But there will be candidates that will act from a biblical point of view and others will do things from other perspectives. I prefer (of course) the biblical view.
     
  17. tamborine lady

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    [​IMG]

    Let me ask another question. Is it a sin to vote for a man you know has sent many americans abroad to be slaughtered? One who sent men there under false pretenses?

    I think it is a fantastic thing that his party has come up with, to get the Christians to vote for him solely because of the abortion thing.

    In answer to your question: It is no more of a sin to vote doe one than the other.

    You would be held accountable in each case for what your candidate believes.

    However, if I thought that the abortion law could be changed by a president, I would vote for that man.

    Since it is already a law, and it will not be changed, it is wrong to focus solely on that part of a candidates beliefs.

    [​IMG]

    Working for Jesus,

    Tam

    P.S. We need to consider ALL the attributes of the condidates, after all, they are not running for the office of Preacher of the USA, they are running for President!!
     
  18. BobRyan

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    The problem is "you know no such thing".

    We do "know" that Kerry is pro-abortion in terms of always voting to continue the sin. Catholic or not.

    We "do know" that Kerry claims to commit to VOTING for a pro-homosexual agenda. In terms of appoint judges that favor social engineering not constructionism and voting or veto-ing anything that limits/restricts the right of abortion on demand and homosexual programs/agenda/rights/

    (Catholic or not)

    That much is not even debatable.

    We "do know" that BOTH Kerry and Bush saw the intelligence briefings on Iraq

    - BOTH voted that we should go to war

    and BOTH today say that knowing what they NOW know they would STILL have gone to war.


    That much is not even debatable - just the facts.

    We "do know" that the information available at that time WAS presented to our government leaders AND they chose to VOTE to for the action taken.


    We do know that we were "governed" by the government and not a single dictator. Though Kerry would spin it such that we were only "following our dictator as mindless sheep back then". So that he can be releived of responsibility for HIS vote.

    We do know that ALL that voted for that action must stand up like men today and take full credit for doing so. Though some would simply claim they were blind sheep following their dictator in cheif (in a after-the-fact electioneering kind of pandering transparent to all)

    That much is not even debatable - just the facts.

    We do know that the mind-numbing rampant speculation from Kerry about "secret hidden motives" for Republicans to go to war - is pretty silly beyond reason. But of course democrats may choose to debate that one.

    We DO KNOW that Saddam PAYED for terrorists to blow themselves up.

    That much is not even debatable.

    We do know that PAYING for terrorism is a CONNECTION to terrorism -

    That much is not even debatable.

    We do know that Saddam's Iraq slaughtered 100's of thousands of innocent men women and children

    Not even debatable. A stable "sane" Iraq is a better Middle East and a safer world.

    We DO KNOW that Germany and Japan both conducted resistance operations after the war

    Not even debatable.

    We DO KNOW that the lesson of WWII was that we can never trust in the mindless moto "Better that the monster kills a million of them than one of me" never works because eventually the monster gets around to you.

    The isolationist "better-you-than-me" model no longer works in a global world wide war, world wide economy.


    We DO KNOW that 12 years of successive UN violations were quickly erroding the last ounce of credibility that the UN had. We know that ALL major intelligence networks held that Saddam was a serious threat

    Not even debatable

    We DO know - Clinton and Kerry made EVEN STRONGER statements about Saddams threat to the world and the US than Bush and we know that based on the information they had - anything bad coming to us "paid for by Saddam" would have put them in the light of "gross negligence".

    The sad thing is - this one is soooo easy - when do you get to the "confusing part"????

    We DO know that the current situation places the vast majority of terrorist resources in the middle east focused on fighting American soldiers in Iraq!

    Do you "really" prefer that they go back to focusing on women children and day-care centers in the US as in the 911 case??

    Come on! Where is the "confusing part"??

    The bottom line is that we DO SHARE in the morally corrupt policies your candidate SAYS he promotes when we vote for him.

    You can not claim ignorance, you can not say that you did not know he would take those positions when they are spelled out in his platform.

    And in the case of some of the current statements in the previous post - you can not claim to seriously believe it.

    Even KERRY admits to the facts listed here.

    How easy could this have been??!!

    If Christians can not rightly discern the easy obvious issues where BOTH Candidates agree - we have no hope for future challenges were the choice is "actually" difficult.

    In Christ,

    Bob

    [ October 16, 2004, 07:18 PM: Message edited by: BobRyan ]
     
  19. Ray Berrian

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    President Bush is pro-family and pro-life. Every Christian commits a most serious sin if they vote for Senator Kerry. He has thumbed his nose to the Catholic Church and defies God eternal rule against homosexuality as found in Genesis chapter nineteen. He was a 'peacenick' in the 60's and has not apologized for his visits to Hanoi while we were at war with North Vietnam Communists. If he is not a one-world-Communist he is the next thing to it. The most liberal senator in the U.S. Senate. He cannot even measure up to his own church and has voted against all of our technological advances that have made us safe to live in our democracy. There is no question that he is the most unworthy person to lead our nation; in other words, he is "Unfit to Command!"

    One would think that all Christians whether, Baptist, Orthodox, Catholic, Pentecostal and independent church members would deeply feel and believe that setting the Christian standard/example for society American society should be at the top of the list when choosing a United States President as we move into a new century.

    If we select Senator Kerry God will be allowing/ordaining our downward walk toward being a second rate power in our world, plus our 'outsourcing' is sending our billions of dollars out of our nation.

    Jesus is coming soon.

    Rev. Dr. Berrian, Th.D.
     
  20. KenH

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    Deciding how to vote is a very, very complex issue nowadays. It is not good to vote based on simplistic reasoning. I would hope that everyone posting on this board would put a great deal of thought into how he/she will vote in every race and on every ballot issue. [​IMG]
     

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