is it biblical Sexism to say only men can be Elders/pastors in church?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Yeshua1, Jan 8, 2014.

  1. Yeshua1

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    As on another bible forum, couple have taken me to task for being that, as I hold to God ordaining males headship in spiritual leadership roles within local churches?
     
  2. annsni

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    Yes, it is Biblical. No, it is not sexism. It's God's Word.
     
  3. Revmitchell

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    Yes it is biblical to say otherwise requires one to become a hermeneutical contortionist.
     
  4. Yeshua1

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    What is interesting is when i keep asking both of them to cite scriptures to support their position, keep saying that we would disagree and refuse to cite them!

    they also seemed to implie that males/females equally equal, so if a man can only certain eoles/position would be where sexism is!
     
  5. Revmitchell

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    Men and women are equal and the biblical roles do not change that. To make this an issue about equality is to not understand what equality actually is.
     
  6. annsni

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    Exactly. If we are so equal, why do only women have children, bear them in pain and are designed to feed them through their first years? If God created us equal, men would be able to do the same - and women would be just as strong as men - and our brains would be wired exactly the same. But we know none of this is true.

    So as per value, yes we are equal. As to role, no we are not.
     
  7. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    Yeshua, Ann and the Rev are right. I plead with you not to take offense at this, but I believe the reason you pursue those discussions is because you are not secure in some of what you believe. The proof of the rightness of your view is that they will not provide Scripture to discredit it. That is because they have none.

    You don't need to worry about it, nor fret that they don't "see it your way." Be secure in the knowledge you have biblical truth on your side, and further discussion with them just feeds their ego, which needs a lot of feeding.

    God bless. :thumbsup:
     
  8. Jon-Marc

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    It's not us people disagree with on scripture when they don't like what it clearly says; they disagree with God, the Author of those words.
     
  9. JohnDeereFan

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    It depends on who I'm talking to. If they seem receptive to correction, then I'll usually give them a brief explanation of God's roles for the sexes and show them the verses that correspond to God's roles for the sexes and His commands for the Church.

    If not, then I'll usually just knock the ball back into their court and say something like, "You're absolutely right. I'm a terrible sexist. Now, how does my being a sexist make the Biblical instruction concerning male leadership wrong?"

    If they're an atheist, and depending on where you want the conversation to go, you might also ask, "Is sexism morally wrong? How do you know?" And then discuss the Bible as an objective and authoritative source of morality, as opposed to the atheist's lack of an objective and authoritative source of morality.

    Or you might just say, "Well, it's a big world out there and, if you look hard enough, I'm sure you'll find a church that does things they way you think they should."
     
  10. Yeshua1

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    Doesn't it seem to be a part of a bigger picture, in that we have 'christian feminism" affecting how some view scriptures, even translations, and also how women must be authorized to preach to have equality?
     
  11. Baptist Believer

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    Biblical "sexism"?

    Nope. Just about everyone who holds to the idea that leadership in local churches is limited to males (of good character) believes that because they believe that's what the Bible teaches. For those people, it is a matter of fidelity to scriptural teaching.

    Many of those who want "equality" have a low view of scripture or they demonize Paul's writings as "sexist" and you should just ignore that kind of opinion.

    However, there are others (I count myself among them) who do not see leadership in the local church restricted to men - BECAUSE of the biblical texts and what I believe is a misinterpretation of Paul - but I don't think people who hold to that view are going to accuse anyone of "sexism." We simply have a disagreement in interpretation of scripture. We are both trying to be faithful to scripture, and it doesn't do anyone any good to make personal attacks or judge another's motives. However, it is profitable to discuss why we see things differently and how we understand the biblical texts.

    For what it's worth, I've been on both sides of this issue, so I have great respect for both sides of the issue as long as people are being faithful to the biblical text as they understand it.
     
  12. Yeshua1

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    I do not see it iron clad that paul when he mentioned"not permitting a woman to usurp authority over a man", as meaning that women cannot ever teach in church such as a sunday school, couples meetings etc, but do NOT see ANY scriptures allowing them to be either pastors/Elders within local assembly, do you, and where?
     
  13. Salty

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    The OP is asking: is it biblical Sexism to say only men can be Elders/pastors in church?

    Yes, it is sexism - as the definition is: Discrimination based on gender, especially discrimination against women

    But sexism in itself is NOT bad - especially in the case of the OP - for whatever reason - God has declared that only men are to be elders.


    Going on with sexism - is it wrong or discrimination for a man not to be allowed to use a ladies restroom.
    YES it is - but again that is Good discrimiation/sexism.
     
  14. questdriven

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    That is one major point I disagree with my church on. I'm not going to part with them over it, though. I don't find it sexist, necessarily...or at least I wouldn't accuse those at my church of it. I value the people there and the things I learn there too much to point a finger at them over something I used to believe and was raised believing myself. I can't help but find the idea objectionable, but I can see why they believe it.
     
    #14 questdriven, Jan 8, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 8, 2014
  15. Rippon

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    What mainstream translations seem to give the impression that women must be authorized to preach in order to have equality?....Crickets....NONE!
     
  16. Yeshua1

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    Not going thru the alice in wonderland trip here with you, but the NSRV and Niv 2011 come to ind as those espousing more of a "feminist" read on the scriptures!
     
  17. questdriven

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    :thumbs: Good to know I'm not the only one.
     
  18. Yeshua1

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    Still loking for those passages that support females as elders/pastors within local churches though, as I cannot find them!
     
  19. questdriven

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    This link goes through Paul's writings on the topic and explains how they may be misunderstood: http://christianthinktank.com/fem09.html
    Rather long read, but brings up other examples from scripture, as well as the historical context. (Remember, Paul's letters were often in response to specific circumstances in the churches he wrote to.)
     
  20. Yeshua1

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    So that would fit under cultural settings, that paul was just addressing that males were to lead based upon the OT setting, but that in modern cultures, females freed to lead, that is what is being referenced?
     

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