Is it necessary to preach on sin & Repentance in church?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by evangelist6589, Jan 6, 2014.

  1. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589
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    Imagine a church where they do not preach on sin and repentance, or hardly ever preach on them. Hardly ever means maybe once every 9 months or so. However they do mention these things in a soul winning class. They do not necessarily use the 10 Commandments, but they do use Bible verses that mention sin which is still good. Even John MacArthur in his Bible tract does not use the 10 Commandments to draw conviction to the sinner, so the use of the commandments seem to be a opinion and a good way, but not the only way. Imagine that the soul winners are encouraged to mention those things to people they witness too, but in the main service there is no need to preach them, as when people come forward at the invitation, then they are mentioned, but only briefly and not hard like what Paul Washer would do. Is there a point to this approach?

    I am trying to be open minded and I have seen this approach in various churches. Perhaps I am incorrect in my view that these things need to be preached in church. Well the scripture in Timothy says to preach them full and head on. Ashamed of the Gospel the author also strongly argues for doing it as well.A good approach to sin can come from Reformed or Arminian. Once I was a member of a Reformed Baptist Church and the pastor was kinda soft on his approach to these things. However certain preachers from BJU were far far far better at preaching on sin and they were Arminian.
     
    #1 evangelist6589, Jan 6, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2014
  2. Jkdbuck76

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    Ever listen to BJU's Calvivist friends, the Free Presbyterians? Those are a group who are most certainly Calvivists and also preach repentance.
     
  3. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    Sin is "preached"? I find that a curious concept. Sin is spoken against in no uncertain terms when witnessing to the lost.

    What is preached in church is discipleship, sanctification of a progressive nature, and grace, which is not just unmerited favor, but the God-given ability to do that which we cannot do ourselves.

    Romans 12, NASB
    3 For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.

    Romans 15
    15 But I have written very boldly to you on some points so as to remind you again, because of the grace that was given me from God,

    1 Corinthians 3
    10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it. ​
    Was it the unmerited favor of God that allowed Paul to do and say these things? Yes, to a degree, but these passage also speak of grace as the driving force for Paul to do things he, within himself, had no power to do.

    These are the things preached in church. Not sin, though it certainly gets mentioned in the course of preaching these messages. But the church's job is to disciple the believer while also preaching repentance to the unbeliever. The art of crafting a sermon is to speak to both with the same message. That is what a church should be doing. If it is concentrating only on the message of sin and repentance to the believer and the unbeliever alike, it is stuck in a rut and will soon become irrelevant.
     
  4. evangelist6589

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    Faith Free Presbyterian Church? Oh yes I have been there and they did speak in chapel. They hold to the doctrine of separation and why BJU likes them over other 9 Marks Calvinist churches and other reformed churches in the area that have nothing to do with them.
     
  5. padredurand

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    The home church (a BJU plant) was one of those places where every sermon Sunday, Sunday evening and mid-week was about sin and repentance. Every sermon! I tell you what it did for me as a young teen. I was saved at age 12. We moved to a new town a few months later and the folks started attending the home church. The pastor was right off the BJU campus and raring to go. Raring he went finding sin EVERYWHERE. In the length of my hair, the music I listened to, the version of Scripture I read, guitars and the beat of drums, pre-marital interdigitation, and on and on and on.

    He brow beat every ear that would listen about their woeful inadequacies, horrible lifestyles that betrayed the very blood that saved them. He'd pound on the pulpit shouting REPENT! REPENT! REPENT! until his cuff links flew off and sweat poured down his face. We were all rabid sinners, on the Hellbound Express that needed to REPENT!

    This is what I learned from all that. God hated me, Grace was withheld, the Cross was insufficient, the Holy Spirit was absent, my redemption was null and void, I was not only sin-sick but incurable, every event in my life was sin-soaked and if I actually made it into Heaven it was because our pastor came "for such a time as this" to pull us back from the precipice.

    The church is for the redeemed. Paul wrote to Timothy, "For God has not given us a spirit of timidity, but of power and love and discipline." (2 Timothy 1:7 NAS77) Two note preachers who can't get past sin and repentance rely on folks cowering under his brow beating. Ever see a dog that cowers under the sharp voice of its owner? That's timidity. It is a result of abuse. That doesn't come from God. It comes from weak-minded preachers whose only tool is fear. God did not give us a spirit of fear either.

    Constant and persistent preaching on sin and repentance to the Blood bought church is a narrow minded approach appealing only to the judicial side of God. God is a God of justice but that is not His only attribute. He is also a God of Mercy and Grace. To the redeemed sin is not a violation of a set law that demands retribution and penalty. We do not pursue holiness out of fear of punishment. We pursue holiness because we love the One who first loved us. We want to please Him because we love Him.

    "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
    Romans 5:8-9 NAS77

    I spent the first six years of my walk walking on eggshells fearing the wrath of God. It would have been time better spent learning how to walk in fear of Him
     
  6. prophet

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    Although, it has been pointed out in this thread, BJU has always had an Arminian flavor, due to it's foundational Methodist Arminian view of Dr Bob.
    Preaching on sin and Repentance incessintly, is a result of Methodist style Arminianism..."Do right til the stars fall"...cuz if you don't, you lose your salvation.
    It is also a trademark of Billy Sunday style evangelical presbyterian preaching. An evangelist will damn everyone to Hell, and call all to repentance, using a list of external acts as a litmus test. Alchohol being the first on their 10 commandments. The 'regenerated' man, who 'walked the sawdust trail', and took the evangelist's hand, would now return to his 'church', where he would hear nothing of sin and repentance until next year's tent meetings. He wouldnt be baptized, he was sprinkled in that very church, as a baby, after all.
    Eventually, these 2 morphed, as well as the Calvy Baptists, into the BJU pastor...described above.
     
  7. ktn4eg

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    Padre--What you posted reminds me of what I experienced some 45 years ago at an service conducted by the evangelist Bob Harrington (the so-called "Chaplain of Bourbon Street").

    Granted, this service was not held at a regularly scheduled local church meeting, but he certainly put on the pressure to come forward at the end of his message.

    Some of us may be familiar with long, drawn out "invitations" [e.g., singing "Just As I Am" 30-40 times till someone comes forward]. Well, Bro. Harrington did exactly the opposite.

    He simply stated that "The Apostle Peter denied the Lord three times! Now, folks, we're only going to sing 'Just As I Am' three times, and then we'll look around to see who's still sitting on their seats!"

    I guess I denied the Lord that evening because I remained seated after the third rendition of "Just As I Am."

    But what happened to those who "didn't deny the Lord" by coming forward?

    All Bro. Harrington did was to pray a short prayer and give them a tract and then summarily dismiss the entire group of "non-deniers."

    Not one single attempt was made by Bro. Harrington (or any person on his staff--assuming he had a staff in the first place) to follow up on any person who may have sincerely wanted to know more about how to receive Jesus Christ as his/her personal Savior, or be directed to any local church for further instruction on salvation, etc.

    All I did was to leave the building.

    BTW, I did pick up the very same tract in the foyer that Bro. Harrington gave those who "didn't deny the Lord"!
     
  8. JamesL

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    If a message only includes the bad news of condemnation, and what humans are expected to do for God, it has derailed into falsehood

    God has never called an unbeliever to turn from behavior in order to receive grace. Jesus always said "Your sins are forgiven" before He said "Go and sin no more"...It was never "Sin no more, then you can come to Me"

    The original question seems to be loaded, coming from a grave misunderstanding of what repentance is.

    Repent is translated from a Greek compound word Metanoeo
    Meta = change
    Noeoe = think

    Repentance simply means to have a change of thinking. It does not mean "turn from sin" no matter how much you want it to mean that. Trying to join "sin and repentance" is really a slap in the face to God, who is giver. This joining of sin and repentance speaks of condemnation for evil, and what a man might do for himself as a cure for his own evil

    Where is the demonstration of God, who reached down to lost humans?
    Where is the death of the One who gave Himself a ransom?

    Where in the world is "justified by faith" if it's all about believing in your own ability to straighten up? Exactly how are we supposed to believe in anyway - ourselves, or Christ?

    This sort of "turn or burn" preaching denies the sacrifice of Christ, because it leaves a depraved man thinking he can work his way into God's grace. Dead men don't get up and walk on their own. They need the Great Physician, not a 12-step program

    Read Acts 17:22-3. What did Paul say?

    22 So Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and said, “Men of Athens, I observe that you are very religious in all respects. 23 For while I was passing through and examining the objects of your worship, I also found an altar with this inscription, ‘TO AN UNKNOWN GOD.’ Therefore what you worship in ignorance, this I proclaim to you. 24 The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands; 25 nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things; 26 and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, 27 that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, ‘For we also are His children.’ 29 Being then the children of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and thought of man. 30 Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, 31 because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead.”


    Notice verses 29-30? We ought not think....repent - Change Your Thinking about God.

    And this repentance related to the trust in idols, not lying and stealing. Paul had just commended them for being "very religious", not depraved infidels


    Fringe Fundamentalism is not gospel truth. Telling a sinner the bad news about sin is a great thing. But after that? What's next?:
    a) more bad news by convincing him that the response is moral adjustments
    b) the good news that Jesus died to save a wretch like me

    Scripture overwhelmingly supports B
     
  9. padredurand

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    It's reassuring to know that I'm not the only one with similar experiences. I struggled for many years following that early experience. It's one thing to "work out your salvation with fear and trembling" and quite another to tremble in fear that you weren't saved to begin with.

    I can't think of a single sermon I've preached over the past 22 years that did not deal with sin and repentance. Working out your salvation with fear and trembling is at the core of discipleship. Being whipped into a frenzy, projecting a weak God who cannot redeem His own, disregarding His ability to keep and hold His own, rejecting the power of the Holy Spirit and brow beating the saints is not preaching sin and repentance. It is fear-mongering among those who have the least to fear. Fear leads to slavery in the most negative sense.

    I labored under the impression that I needed to get saved twice on Sunday and again on Wednesday night and was floundering in failure the rest of the week. That is indeed a different Gospel.
     
  10. Earth Wind and Fire

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    I will remind you that not all Methodists were John Wesley type arminians. Many of my family were Calvinistic Methodists in the pattern of George Whitefield.
     
  11. JonC

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    :thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
  12. prophet

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    Your family isn't the subject of this discussion. Bob Jones, the Arminian Methodist, is. And we are discussing the results of "Baptists" being educated by Meth-Arms.

    Not that I deny the other wing of Methodism.

    Constant condemnation/ repentance preaching is seemingly a result of blending Arminian lack of Eternal security with Presby Cal fundamentalism.
     
  13. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Wow..... you understand! :thumbs:

    SO Few do these days :BangHead:
     
  14. Earth Wind and Fire

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    OK.... Well then I got a problem with that whole movement. Ive seen more divisiveness with Bob Jones & Arminian Methodists than I care to mention. I have one in result in particular sitting in one of my houses.....a 23 YO Male who is so depressed by a pedophile that was introduced into their Fundy Church.....lets see another, a 20 YO woman who has run away & shacked up with a guy down in Mississippi & or one of their pastors being cautioned never to even speak to a Reformed individual because God will rescind any blessings to their church if you speak to any of these heretics. And I can go on & on. Personally, I hate their guts (should have used stinking guts).
     
  15. preacher4truth

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    I'm certain there may be some validity somewhere out there for this. But I find it interesting that when evangelist6589 broad brushes as you are doing here (what pastors do wrong/don't do right) he is wrong for it and receives your ire and you then paint christendom in an exaggerated good light.

    I'd remind you that Paul also wrote to Timothy to preach all Scripture, and that it is all profitable. Looks to me the preaching you received that rebuked had some benefit. Correct? Made you think, right? Or are you telling us it wasn't profitable? Notice also Timothy was told to reprove, rebuke, exhort. This to the church. Looks 2/3 polemic in nature to me.
     
  16. preacher4truth

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    Or, how about;

    C. You're such a wonderful person and so utterly valuable Jesus wants to save you.

    'Oh, I am so wonderful! I've always known how valuable I am! I am glad He noticed. How could He not love me when I love me so much too!'
     
  17. preacher4truth

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    Some of y'all need to take a closer look at Scripture. Repentance isn't only to be preached to the lost. It was preached to the churches as well. :thumbs:
     
  18. JamesL

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    A hearty AMEN !!!

    My experience was not one of a believer being downtrodden, but of an unbeliever being fed the false gospel of moral improvement = repentance = salvation

    We went to church every Sunday (morning and evening) and every Wednesday evening. Funny thing - whether at home or church, I never heard anything about God unless it was to condemn something I'd said or done.

    I honestly can't count the number of times I sincerely regretted my sin, asked God to forgive me, for Jesus to come into my heart and make me a better person, and committed myself to living for God.

    Strange thing, it would only last a day or two. Even stranger thing? I've been told by hundreds of people that what I "did" is the biblical prescription for salvation.

    But nowhere in my account is there any hint that I believed Jesus to be God (which I had never been taught). Nowhere is there any hint that I knew the purpose of Jesus' death (which I did not), or what it accomplished (which I did not). Nowhere is there any mention of receiving God's grace through faith (I obviously knew nothing about that)

    In other words, though I could determine to turn my life over to God, and say a "prayer" promising as much and asking forgiveness, I was missing the one biblical requirement for salvation - I never believed the gospel

    I went for over 20 years (from 6 to 28) believing that I needed to save myself. At times it was exasperating, while at times I was just bored with it all. No grace, no Christ, no hope

    When I did finally encounter the biblical gospel of grace through faith, I had been so indoctrinated with works that I outright rejected every notion that a substitutionary death was God's remedy for my sinful condition
     
  19. InTheLight

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    WOW. Change the age from 12 to 13 and that is my story as well.
     
  20. InTheLight

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    Concerning the OP, yes it is necessary to preach about sin and repentance, but not on a weekly basis. Probably not on a monthly basis either.
     

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