Is it really that important??

Discussion in 'Youth Forum' started by SaggyWoman, Aug 19, 2001.

  1. SaggyWoman

    SaggyWoman
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    Is it really that important to remain pure until marriage????
     
  2. Jesse

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    If you're going to have pre-marital sex, at least have it with someone you care about and would like to start a relationship with. It's good to save it for marriage but if push comes to shove at least make it meaningful, instead of just using each other.
     
  3. John Wells

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    Jesse,

    God's plan is: relationship / marriage / sex
    Not: sex / relationship / ?

    In God's Word, sex outside of wedlock is called "fornication."

    Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. (1 Cor 6:18, 7:2 KJV)

    Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, FORNICATION, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. (Gal 5:19-21 KJV)

    Jesse, it's more serious than a "meaningful relationship!"
     
  4. Barnabas H.

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    Amen to that "wellsjs!" [​IMG]
     
  5. Sularis

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    basically what wellsj said.

    Tho i may not use that verse but still yeah what that person said
     
  6. Rev. Joshua

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    It's interesting to note that in my pastoral counseling sessions, I've noticed that the very few couples (5%?) who did not have sex before marriage seem to have more concerns and frustrations about that aspect of marriage.

    My big concern with propoganda campaigns like True Love Waits give the impression that virginity is the greatest gift we can offer our spouses. Personally, I'd rank it about number 20, well below things like honesty, integrity, self-esteem, good communication skills, conflict resolution skills, maturity, etc.

    Joshua
     
  7. KeeperOfMyHome

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    That is really about the saddest thing I have ever heard from someone in the ministry.
     
  8. KeeperOfMyHome

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    Jesse, sex outside of marriage is never meaningful. Why? Because you are participating in a benefit God wants preserved for marriage alone.
     
  9. Rev. Joshua

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    Keeper,

    Since I made essentially three points, which one makes you sad?

    1 - Only about 5% of the couples I've worked with had not had sex before marriage.

    2 - The ones who did not have sex before marriage seemed to have a higher level of sexual dysfunction.

    3 - I rank virginity well below several other more important areas in creating a healthy marriage.

    Joshua
     
  10. Barnabas H.

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    CJoshuaV, you obviously are not referring to counseling young couples before marriage, so what are you talking about? :confused:
     
  11. Rev. Joshua

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    No, I'm referring to couples and individuals I've counselled as either a pastor or a chaplain (having been both).

    I don't want to make a generalization about couples I've counselled prior to performing their wedding. I've only done 21 weddings, and it would be a viloation of confidentiality to generalize about such a small group.

    I will say, though, that the vast majority of the couples I meet (who are talking about getting married) are not virgins.

    Joshua
     
  12. SaggyWoman

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    I am not trying to defend anything Joshua has said, but I would like to comment . .

    1.) I agree that there is a very low numbeer of people who I personally know (that I have asked) who had or have remained virgins until marriage. That is a sad state to me. . . especially when I personally desire purity .. . In fact, I found the number startlingly low. Sometimes, I wonder, seriously, why we then make such a big deal about it.

    2.) I do agree that there are other qualities that are as important. . . sometimes more (??). But you know, if a person has not held his / her sexual self in control . . I wonder about the other areas. . . .
     
  13. Rev. Joshua

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    Saggy,

    Actually, I think you are kinda, sorta agreeing with me. I'm just stating my observations over the past few years. When you're a pastor, people tell you far more stuff than you ever wanted to know. The reality seems to be that very, very few Christian couples wait until marriage.

    My guess is that it has always been thus, since for thousands of years people have spent so much time warning against premarital sex. If lots of people weren't having premarital sex, there would have been no need for the warnings.

    Another thing that I've learned from my counseling sessions is that emotional security and conflict resolution skills have a much greater impact on the health of a marriage than premarital sexual activity.

    Joshua
     
  14. Bro. Lee

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    I cannot believe some of the things being said here. Jessy, our thoughts, wishes, hopes, dream, desires or anything else does not matter. The only thing that matters is the word of God and he says: SEX BEFORE MARRIAGE IS A SIN. Everyone needs to stop trying to make the Bible meet their lifestyle and make their lifestyle match up to the Bible
     
  15. SaggyWoman

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    oh, Bro. Lee, I think it is wrong . . . which is why I question this because "everybody is doing it."

    Well, let me step aside and say, "people who I thought were committed Christians, serious about presenting their holiness to God. . . are doing it."

    Why is this???????
     
  16. Bible Believing Bill

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    Bro. Lee

    AMEN!

    You said all that needs to be said.
     
  17. Jesse

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wellsjs:
    &lt;snip&gt;
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    Yes, but pre-marital sex
    does happen, it's fact. It shouldn't but it does, so I'd rather hear about someone having sex with someone that they care about and hey, maybe one day they will get married, then hear about some random fling. I think my message was taken wrong, I should have explained it more deeply originally, I'm not advocating pre-marital sex.

    [ August 21, 2001: Message edited by: Jesse ]
     
  18. Bob Landis

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    Premarital sex is the biggest reason for so many divorces, broken homes, fatherless children,abortions, and death. Premaritial sex not a big deal? Read my first sentence again. God intended sex to be of love,affection, and oneness between two married adults. Also to procreate and make a family.

    Just to prove my cheese hasn't slid off of my cracker, I will deal with my first example,divorce. Now I know there is exceptions to every rule so nobody has to hammer me. A good portion of todays young people handle courtship in this manner. They go out to "party" and have fun. They are also out to find someone of the opposite sex that they are physically attracted to. If they find someone they become quickly aquainted and it is not long before they have sex. What is the first thing that comes out of their mouth afterwords? "I love you." That wasn't love, that was lust! They now form a relationship based mostly on their sexual compatibility. Soon they are married. After awhile, when you use sex as an activity instead of what God intended you get bored with the same partner. To make matters worse, beyond the sex, you find out neither one of you have very much in common, something you overlooked since you mind was clouded by lust. Now your on each others nerves and on your way to a divorce, and finally get one. You would think you've learned your lesson right. Wrong. You go back and find another the same way you found the first. If you happen to have children along the way to teach your immoral lifestyle by example and on and on it goes.
     
  19. TomVols

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CJoshuaV:
    Keeper,

    Since I made essentially three points, which one makes you sad?

    1 - Only about 5% of the couples I've worked with had not had sex before marriage.

    2 - The ones who did not have sex before marriage seemed to have a higher level of sexual dysfunction.

    3 - I rank virginity well below several other more important areas in creating a healthy marriage.

    Joshua
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    On Point 1, you're probably very correct, I am sorry to say. On point two, I have seen just the opposite. In my counseling experience as pastor, youth pastor, chaplain, etc., people who claim purity before marriage tend to have a much healthier view of sexual intimacy than those who were sexually active. My experience in point 2 leads me to believe that your point 3 is not necessarily correct, and leads me to this conclusion: A healthy view of sexual intimacy is crucial to a solid marital relationship.
     
  20. Rev. Joshua

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    Bob,

    If anything, your point proves mine. You argue that couples who have sex before marriage discover at some point that their relationship is built solely on good sex and consequently their marriage falls apart because they don't have all the other things that I listed as being more important than sex.

    As to whether or not people form relationships based on having had sex, I think that is probably less likely today than it was twenty or certainly forty years ago. Generally, there is no longer a large cultural pressure for people to find spouses. In my own anecdotal experience, young adults are generally in relationships at various levels of committment before they have sex. The ones who are involved in the kind of gratuitous promiscuity you describe aren't looking for marriage or relationships anyway.

    Ironically, the worst marriages I've ever seen, bar none, are the couples who got married very young (college age) because they were so eager to have sex and felt like they couldn't without marriage. These sometimes take twenty years to fall apart, but they do - and they're usually miserable for a long time until then. I knew a colleague in that boat who explicitly told couples who were in that category to just go ahead and have sex. I assume that he didn't mean in his study ;).

    Tom, you're experience is clearly different from mine, and it may reflect our ministry areas. Most of the couples I see are getting married/got married in their late twenties or early thirties. The very, very few I know who waited generally have some pretty serious issues about sexuality, i.e.:
    - ridiculously high expectations
    - unhealthy emphasis on it's importance
    - guilt about sex after marriage
    - discomfort with talking about sex with their partner
    - inability to disassociate physical intimacy from sex

    I'm hesitant to outline the problems I've heard from couples who had sex before marriage. Since that is almost every one of them, they are a much larger and more diverse group andfinding the contributing factors is more complex.

    Joshua
     

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