is it true?

Discussion in 'Baptist History' started by Joman, Aug 25, 2005.

  1. Joman

    Joman
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    that martin lutero killed anabaptist?
    and that anabaptist are not considered protestant?

    sorry for my english.
     
  2. Squire Robertsson

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    To your first question, not directly. But the civil powers under his influence did.

    To your second, yes.

    As for your apology, con mucho gusto.
     
  3. Joman

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    from what church anabaptist came? they were catholics?
     
  4. Johnv

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    The word "protestant" today has a different meaning than it used to.

    When referring to Protestants as those who broke from the Roman Catholic Church as a matter of protestation, then no, anabaptists are not considered protestants. However, when referring to protestants as being non-romanist churches, then yes, anabaptists fall into that category.
     
  5. Frogman

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    The Anabaptists were already present (and separate) from the Roman Catholic when Martin Luther attempted to 'reform' the Roman Catholic Church.

    Bro. Dallas
     
  6. Joman

    Joman
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    Any link/url with a complete baptist history?
     
  7. Frogman

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    Dear Joman,
    Try these links:

    I believe either are good sound works and may serve to provide some comparison of thought as well:

    The History of the Church of God---Sylvester Hassell

    and

    Baptist History

    And also try this one

    Anabaptists: Neither Catholics nor Protestants

    There are others and at least one more good one I use to have in my favorites but can't find it. If I do find it online I will post the link.


    Some of the others may know it, can't remember the author's name, but it was a history of the churches in the Piedmont Valley.

    Hope this helps,
    May God Bless,
    Bro. Dallas Eaton [​IMG]
     
  8. rsr

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  9. Frogman

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    Dear Brother RSR,
    That is ok. Do you know the book I reference above?

    It is about the experience of the churches of the Valley of Piedmont. Who wrote it, it is online, but I can't find it, only references to these churches in other histories. [​IMG]

    Bro. Dallas
     
  10. rsr

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    Bro. Dallas:

    Is the book you're thinking of The Waldenses: or Protestant Valleys of Piedmont, Dauphiny and the Ban de la Roche? I haven't found it online.
     
  11. Joman

    Joman
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    is there a SBC view of Baptist History and a IFB view ?
     
  12. rsr

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    Not as such.

    You will find a similar variety of views in both groups, though perhaps in different proportions. (My guess is that IFBs hold more to succession than the SBC as a whole, but I can't provide anything more than anecdotal evidence.)

    Within Baptist history, there are four broad views:

    1. Baptists were an outgrowth of English Separtism.

    2. Anabaptists were heavily influenced (or even descended from) Anabaptists.

    3. Baptist practice is based on Biblical principles that can be traced back to the early church, though a direct succession of churches is neither possible to prove nor necessary.

    4. Modern Baptists are lineal successors of the original New Testament churches, the relationship can be established historically, and such successionism is required for modern churches to be valid.

    Obviously, some positions can fall somewhere between these broad categories.
     
  13. Frogman

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    It may have been the Waldenses by J.Wylie?
    or Protestant Valleys of Piedmont. I can't remember. Tyndale gave the links once, long ago and I can't find them for sure.

    The author's name was odd, so Wylie I think was the correct work, but I was thinking the title was something another 'churches of the Piedmont'.

    Oh well,
    Thanks,
    Bro. Dallas [​IMG]
     
  14. Blood Bought 7

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    The question as to weather anabaptists were protestants is an interesting question. In what little study I've done of the matter, the faith was a continuation of independant evangelical bible preaching and believing that can logicaly be traced back to the apostles... however the term itself implies a reformation. "anna" meaning re or again and "baptist" meaning one who is baptized. therefore "anabaptist" means one who is rebaptized. If I have read correctly they despised this term and the ones who held closest to this title refered to themselves simply as "baptists" or "baptized believers" which it is historicaly evident that the current baptists faiths were born out of.
     
  15. faithtrustbelief

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  16. rsr

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    BB7 said:

    "If I have read correctly they despised this term and the ones who held closest to this title refered to themselves simply as 'baptists' or 'baptized believers' which it is historicaly evident that the current baptists faiths were born out of."

    The earliest Anabaptists, so far as I know, called themselves Christians. Of course they would reject the name Anabaptist because they believed there could only be one true baptism.

    Whether "it is historicaly evident that the current baptist faiths were born out of" Anabaptism is a subject of dispute. I would contend that several Baptist principles — priesthood of the believer, soul liberty, freedom of worship and separation of church and state (which we share with the Anabaptist tradition) — flow naturally from Luther, even though he shrank from their practical application.

    (Mennon Simms, in fact, got his first jolt from reading Luther.)

    I think it is wrong to be dogmatic about such things. There was ferment within western Christendom at least from the time of Wycliff and through Hus, which created a predisposition among a segment of Christians that would respond to the Reformers. In the 16th century there was a good deal of change in the air, and it is not surprising that many traditions imbibed from common wells of change.

    I would not deny the influence of Anabaptists on Baptists (especially among the General Baptists) but do not see an organic connection. Helwys, after all, split with Smith over the latter's desire to join the Anabaptist Waterlanders in Holland.
     
  17. Humblesmith

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    The history, as I understand it, explain the Anabaptists as originally coming out of followers of Zwingli. Some followers of Zwingli disagreed with Zwingli and supported adult believers baptism, and had a public debate in Zurich in 1525. Anabaptits, as stated earlier, means "re-baptizers". The Anabaptists did not exist prior to this, nor did they exist prior to Luther.

    Later, Menno Simons, of Amsterdam, witnessed how the Anabaptists were persecuted and killed, felt convicted, and became a leader. The Mennonites and Amish are decendants of this.

    John Smyth, a pastor of a Separatist church in England -- one that had separated from the Anglican church of Henry VIII -- met some Anabaptists, and came to believe their teachings about adult baptism. Smyth baptized himself and his congregation. He later left the Seperatists and became an Anabaptist/Mennonite, leaving his church behind. The churches that Smyth left behind left the Seperatist movement and became the first Baptists.

    So the first Baptists were from congregations that had Separated from Anglican, fell under the teachings of the Anabaptists, but were not directly decended from Anabaptist. The Anabaptists became the Mennonites and Amish.

    See "The Radical Reformation" by Williams.
     
  18. Bob Farnaby

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    http://www.doctrine.org/history/ is a web site with 'The History of Protestantism" by J. A. Wylie.

    Part of the contents of Volume 1 Book 1 is :-

    Chapter 5 . . . MEDIAEVAL PROTESTANT WITNESSES.
    Ambrose of Milan — His Diocese — His Theology — Rufinus, Presbyter of Aquileia — Laurentius of Milan — The Bishops of the Grisons — Churches of Lombardy in Seventh and Eighth Centuries — Claude in the Ninth Century — His Labors — Outline of his Theology — His Doctrine of the Eucharist — His Battle against Images — His Views on the Roman Primacy — Proof thence arising — Councils in France approve his Views — Question of the Services of the Roman Church to the Western Nations.
    Chapter 6 . . . THE WALDENSES — THEIR VALLEYS
    Submission of the Churches of Lombardy to Rome — The Old Faith maintained in the Mountains — The Waldensian Churches — Question of their Antiquity — Approach to their Mountains — Arrangement of their Valleys — Picture of blended Beauty and Grandeur.
    Chapter 7 . . . THE WALDENSES — THEIR MISSIONS AND MARTYRDOMS
    Their Synod and College — Their Theological Tenets — Romaunt Version of the New Testament — The Constitution of their Church — Their Missionary Labors — Wide Diffusion of their Tenets — The Stone Smiting the Image.
    Chapter 8 . . . THE PAULICIANS
    The Paulicians the Protesters against the Eastern, as the Waldenses against the Western Apostasy — Their Rise in A.D. 653 — Constantine of Samosata-Their Tenets Scriptural — Constantine Stoned to Death — Simeon Succeeds — Is put to Death — Sergius — His Missionary Travels — Terrible Persecutions-The Paulicians Rise in Arms — Civil War — The Government Triumphs — Dispersion of the Paulicians over the West — They Blend with the Waldenses — Movement in the South of Europe — The Troubadour, the Barbe, and the Bible, the Three Missionaries — Innocent III. — The Crusades.
    Chapter 9 . . . CRUSADES AGAINST THE ALBIGENSES
    Rome founded on the Dogma of Persecution — Begins to act upon it — Territory of the Albigenses — Innocent III. — Persecuting Edicts of Councils — Crusade preached by the Monks of Citeaux — First Crusade launched — Paradise — Simon de Montfort — Raymond of Toulouse — His Territories Overrun and Devastated — Crusade against Raymond Roger of Beziers — Burning of his Towns — Massacre of their Inhabitants — Destruction of the Albigenses.


    This may have some of the information you are looking for.
    Regards
    Bob
     

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