Is the anti-Christ coming?

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Gina B, May 1, 2001.

  1. Gina B

    Gina B
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    The people around me are panicking. I received an e-mail this morning telling me it is now May, and we have through September, and sometime in there (gasp) the anti-Christ will arrive. It's all very interesting, and I don't doubt that it may be true, and I'm suprised it hasn't happened already, but is there a Biblical basis for this? And I thought we were in the sixth day. What do you think?
    Gina
     
  2. Rockfort

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    When anybody starts giving their projected dates for prophecy, ignore it. It doesn't amount to a hill of frostbitten beans.
     
  3. Gina B

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    But doesn't our whole belief hinge on a prophetic basis? The Bible is prophecy, from beginning to end. He gave us the Sun, moon and stars for signs and seasons, and gives examples of things coming that will let us know when the end times are approaching. Doesn't G-d mean for us to use these signs and examples? At least to a point?
    Gina
     
  4. Joseph_Botwinick

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    The anti Christ has already come during the time of Emporer worship (Nero or Domitian). The Bible is not just one big prophecy. That is not the BASIS of our faith. The basis of our faith is the Love of God as revealed to us through scripture and fullfilled through Jesus. The Old Testament is divided into three basic sections:

    1. Torah (Law)
    2. Nabyiam (Prophets)
    3. wacothobim (the writings...poetry, wisdom literature)

    The whole idea that Prophecy in the Bible is somehow related only to knowing future events (especially those of the end of the world Tim Lehaye Left the Scripture Behind variety) are foriegn to scripture. Many prophets were merely ancient preachers who proclaimed the word of God. Many times when they did predict the future, it was usually in the context of proclaiming the judgment of God on Israel which were fullfilled not too long afterwards. My faith is not based on prophecy...is yours?

    Joseph
     
  5. Ars

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Mark 13:

    [32] But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
    [33] Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Jesus tells us in his own words that no one knows when the end times will come. The end times, of course, will usher in the appearance of THE antichrist. There are and will be many antichrists

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>1 John.2
    [18] Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
    [22] Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

    1 John.4
    [3] And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

    2John.1
    [7] For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The Bible indeed is made up of many prophecies, fullfilled, and yet to come. We should not be focusing on the signs but on Christ.

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Matt.16
    [1] The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven.
    [2] He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red.
    [3] And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?
    [4] A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas.
    And he left them, and departed.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I fear we have a tendency to focus on things other than what we should. I too am guilty of that. But, we must pray for the Lord to give us wisdom and strength to endure the times we are in.

    Your brother in Christ,
    Dave

    (And yes, I am King James Version only) :D
     
  6. Gina B

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    Good answers guys. Thanks.
    Joseph--it's like this. It was prophesied a Savior would come. He did. It was prophesied he would die for us. He did. It was prophesied he would rise again. He did. It was prophesied he will come again. He hasn't. We are still waiting for that prophecy to be fulfilled. There are many others that do not seem to have come to pass. If I didn't misunderstand you, you said the anti-Christ has already come. What else do you believe about the prophesies of the end times has already happened?
    Doesn't the Bible say watch and be ready, for when you see these things come to pass, the time is nigh for Christ's return?
    I guess in a way my faith IS based on prophecy. The prophecy that Jesus is coming again, the prophecies already fulfilled.
    Gina
     
  7. Ars

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    Gina D Wrote:
    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> If I didn't misunderstand you, you said the anti-Christ has already come. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Before I comment, let me first add this:

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> 1John.2
    [18] Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    We must understand that there are two types of antichrists. The scriptures tell us that "He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son." This is an example of the second one listed in verse 18. The antichrist you are speaking of may or may not be here. He will not be revealed until after the Rapture. So looking for him now would be superfluous.


    Your brother in Christ,
    Dave
     
  8. Joseph_Botwinick

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  9. Gina B

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    Thanks Dave.
    Wow Joseph. I've only spoken to one person my whole life who has that point of view, only he doesn't take it quite as far.
    Anyhow, I took a quick peek at the site. I'll have to go back and take a closer one. Sounds interesting-not at all what I've always taken to be fact yet partly what I began looking at about a week ago. I'll have to learn more about it before I can really comment though.
    I will say this though. Seems like from what I saw you'd be pretty lost as far as having any real direction in your spiritual life. It wuld pretty much make the Bible obsolete and you'd have to rely on your own instincts as to what is expected of you now, with a very unclear view of what's going to happen to you after your life here on earth ends.
     
  10. Barnabas H.

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    Bro. "JBotwinick," it was a bit difficult to follow your notes above, because you failed to put Gina's remarks in quotation marks (" "). Did not know where you ended and Gina began......... ;) But it is an interesting premise.

    "Gina," I am sure you are familiar with Mark 13:32
    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels whjich are in heaven, neither the Son, but (Gr. "if not") the Father. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    When it come to prophecy, we have to be careful how we approach them. God in His wisdom has revealed many through His word but some will be revealed only in eternity (as the redeemed will not be here to witness some of the end-time events). And "JBotwinick" was right in his statement that we do not base our faith on prohpecy. Our faith has to be based on the redemptive work and person of the Lord Jesus Christ! Hope this will help. [​IMG]
     
  11. Gina B

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    One more comment. &lt;gasp&gt; I'm a partial preterist! Oh my word-I've been labelled :eek:
    Yes, I'm looking at the link right now.
    Joseph, I'm interested in finding out what you believe about the rapture. I'll warn you though, I may not be able to handle it if I actually agree with you on something. :D
    I won't tell what I believe right now, because I'm sure a war will begin with the IFB's, to which I am, but do not dare do battle with on this subject, for fear of being eaten alive by my own kind.
     
  12. Joseph_Botwinick

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gina:
    One more comment. &lt;gasp&gt; I'm a partial preterist! Oh my word-I've been labelled :eek:
    Yes, I'm looking at the link right now.
    Joseph, I'm interested in finding out what you believe about the rapture. I'll warn you though, I may not be able to handle it if I actually agree with you on something. :D
    I won't tell what I believe right now, because I'm sure a war will begin with the IFB's, to which I am, but do not dare do battle with on this subject, for fear of being eaten alive by my own kind.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Gina,

    I would probably classify myself as a partial preterist, with possible leaning to full preterism. I learned about preterism about 5 years ago and am still studying the Bible for further understanding. I do not know every belief of the full preterist nor do I have understanding as of yet, but this summer when school lets out, I have every intention of doing an in depth study into the book of Revelation. What parts of preterism do you believe?

    Joseph
     
  13. Joseph_Botwinick

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  14. Joseph_Botwinick

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gina:

    I will say this though. Seems like from what I saw you'd be pretty lost as far as having any real direction in your spiritual life. It wuld pretty much make the Bible obsolete and you'd have to rely on your own instincts as to what is expected of you now, with a very unclear view of what's going to happen to you after your life here on earth ends.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Let me explain...

    1. The purpose of the Bible is not to tell us about the end of the world as Lehaye would have you believe...it is to reveal God and his plan of salvation for all mankind.

    2. As a Christian, I am never alone when it comes to interpeting the scripture and understanding the message of the Bible. I have the Holy Spirit working in my life who guides me in my study and my life. Without this, I would most assuredly be lost. But, I am not. In Baptist doctrine, we call this the Preisthood of all Believers (a doctrine which seems to be rejected by most Catholics and more and more, the leadership of the SBC) ;)

    3. I have a very clear view of what will happen to me once this life is over. This is when I will see Jesus face to face in his Kingdom of Heaven. I don't have to be a pre-mellinial despensationalist to believe this.

    Joseph
     
  15. Joseph_Botwinick

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gina:
    One more comment. &lt;gasp&gt; I'm a partial preterist! Oh my word-I've been labelled :eek:
    Yes, I'm looking at the link right now.
    Joseph, I'm interested in finding out what you believe about the rapture. I'll warn you though, I may not be able to handle it if I actually agree with you on something. :D
    I won't tell what I believe right now, because I'm sure a war will begin with the IFB's, to which I am, but do not dare do battle with on this subject, for fear of being eaten alive by my own kind.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I don't believe in a rapture. I don't think it is Biblical.

    Joseph
     
  16. SPAM

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    Gina, as far as the anti-christ alive today? Can not tell you. Possible. I believe it's very possible that he is being established and being put in place as we speak.

    The response about him already coming, in the form of Nero, not likely. Nero was a horrible man who reeked havoc on the christians. His cruelties arguably were unmatched, but I don't feel he was the anti-christ, simply because of the time frame in which he lived. Will he be set up again to become the future anti-christ? Don't see it, but I will say this, God knows and as long as He does I can relax a little on it realizing He will explain it all to me one day.

    The anti-christ, however, will most assuredly be compared to Nero by way of his cruelty, but there are many that are compared in this manner, both good and bad. Some may compare him to Hitler, or Herod, in the last portion of the tribulation. But, he will be compared to Christ first of all. Never lose sight of that. He will be the great deceiver; Nero didn't try to deceive anyone.

    Also, be sure, according to I Thessalonians 4: 12-16, JESUS, HIMSELF, will come back for those of us who truly belong to Him.

    But, the subject of the anti-christ has been debated all my life. Never a clear winner has emerged. It may be that the Lord wants us to be relevent to the times in which we live. The truth is, we have the hope as referenced in I Thessalonians 4, that Jesus is coming for us. Those that are left behind will have the task of dealing with his regime.

    Praise His name, we will all be eating dinner with Christ: The marriage supper of the Lamb. While we are, we can watch this whole thing unfold and listen to Him as He places every piece of the puzzle together.
     
  17. Gina B

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    Have you considered the possibility of Judas coming back as the anti-Christ?
    Joseph, I wasn't aware until today that there was a specific name for what I believe. Just came to my thoughts through private study, so I'll have to examine it more carefully and tell you the exact points. It is quite a relief though, to know I'm not alone in this. I've always identified most with the IFB's, so that's where I'm at, and I just keep quiet about my beliefs about the rapture and such.
    Will be waiting here patiently for the replies to this one. ;)
    Gina
     
  18. Dr. Bob

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    Gina - I would simply encourage you to continue studying the concepts of prophecy, especially those dealing with the coming rapture of believers (I Thes 4:13ff, Rev. 4:1ff).

    I know that JBot doesn't believe in it, and neither do most liberal Baptists, but I want you to understand that there are millions of Baptists who DO believe in it. By FAR the majority.

    Baptist organizations and associations like the Southern Baptist, Conservative Baptist, General Assoc. of Regular Baptist, New Testament Assoc. of Baptists, and almost every independent fundamental Baptist church will hold to a coming rapture, 7 year tribulation, return of Christ to rule for 1000 years, final rebellion, and a new heaven and new earth.

    So, keep an open mind to the Spirit leading you in your understanding of His Word.
     
  19. Joseph_Botwinick

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dr. Bob Griffin:
    Gina - I would simply encourage you to continue studying the concepts of prophecy, especially those dealing with the coming rapture of believers (I Thes 4:13ff, Rev. 4:1ff).

    I know that JBot doesn't believe in it, and neither do most liberal Baptists, but I want you to understand that there are millions of Baptists who DO believe in it. By FAR the majority.

    Baptist organizations and associations like the Southern Baptist, Conservative Baptist, General Assoc. of Regular Baptist, New Testament Assoc. of Baptists, and almost every independent fundamental Baptist church will hold to a coming rapture, 7 year tribulation, return of Christ to rule for 1000 years, final rebellion, and a new heaven and new earth.

    So, keep an open mind to the Spirit leading you in your understanding of His Word.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Yes Gina,

    Dr. Griffin is correct on this. The official Catholic-Baptist Church does endorse this and everyone else is a liberal heretic. Just because the majority believe that doesn't make it true...there once was a time when Baptist used scripture to justify slavery as well. That didn't make it Biblical or correct. The same concept is still in place here. My advice to you would be to hold to the priesthood of all believers, allow the Holy Spirit to guide you in your studies (not the majority opinion of Baptist),be open to learning new things from God, and study all the views to find out what you believe is true. If you come up a preterist, good for you. If you decide to be a premellinial dispensationalist, I will disagree with you, but will respect your beliefs and will not ridicule you. This is called freedom of the Believers, something that is becoming less and less common in the Southern Baptist Convention.

    A good reference for studying all sides of this fairly and objective is written by a conservative scholar named Steven Gregg called "Revelation Four Views: A Parallel Commentary". Gregg does not endorse or deny any of the four major views in this book. However, he does discuss the History of end-times thought, Apocalyptic Literature, the different views, what the early church fathers believed....

    He also does a verse by verse study of the entire book where he puts the verse at the top of the page and then does a parallel commentary beneath it. In the parrallel commentary, he quotes from the leading proponets of the four views as to what that scripture means to them. For the most part, he leaves the decision up to you as to what you should believe instead of telling you what to believe.

    Joseph


    [ May 02, 2001: Message edited by: JBotwinick ]

    [ May 02, 2001: Message edited by: JBotwinick ]
     
  20. Gina B

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    I will keep both of your concerns in mind.
    Gina
     

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