Is the Bible "Just another book?"

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by righteousdude2, Oct 8, 2013.

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  1. righteousdude2

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    I was conversing, actually debating, with a journalist who professes to be born-again. He is a graduate from the university that just released a transgendered teacher, and this university happens to be my alma mater too!

    He had the audacity to say to me, when I quoted the Bible to him about the scriptures that speak of the sin regarding the effeminate, the following... "Paul, you're delusional. And the Bible is just a book — no more, no less. Believe whatever fantasies you want — the rest of us will move on, in the real world."

    This appears to be the belief of many now calling themselves believers! Does this strike you as odd? Or is it another sign of the times before us, as a church?

    Would love your input, as believers. Is the Bible "Just another book?" :tear:
     
  2. Rippon

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    Why would you ask such a silly question of us in the first place?
     
  3. righteousdude2

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    I am just appalled....

    ...at the lack of love for God and His Word in this nation! I am asking the question in a rhetorical way, hoping you would do two things, be on the look out for folks with this mindset and how you would react and respond to such a heracy by people claiming to be believers! This person is reflective of the group within the church that we must address and try to minister around. Notice I didn't say, "Minister to!" This person is quite possibly beyond help IMHO!

    Additionally, I'd like to know if others are coming across this kind of mindset in professing believers! I've heard it eluded to before, but never so blatantly put!

    So, back to your question, is this something you've heard before, and how do you counter such audacious sentiment?
     
    #3 righteousdude2, Oct 8, 2013
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  4. Rippon

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    People with the mindset of your journalist fellow alumni. Hmm...it is strange that he would say he is born again. Normally one who denies the inspiration,authority of the Word of God would mock the born again phraselogy. This kind of person,if he goes to a church at all --must be very liberal. I doubt that he would go to one that proclaims the authority and singularity of the Bible.
    This kind of individual would not surprise anyone who knows him. I don't think he's keeping it a secret. So an authentic assembly of believers would take him aside and explain some things. A real counseling session would transpire. The sheep of the flock should not be exposed to his kind of thinking. And he has gone beyond the thinking stage. He is openly voicing his warnings against those of us who revere the Word of God.

    Take them aside and witness to them from the Word they despise. Then shake the dust off your feet if they despise you.
     
  5. salzer mtn

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    I heard a non-denominational preacher say from the pulpit years ago referring to the bible as just another book until the Holy Spirit makes it alive to your soul. I think the scripture he was using was the letter killeth but the Spirit giveth life. I think there are people that have went to far the other way in saying the written word and the Spirit are the same.
     
  6. Aaron

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    See what happens when one casts his pearls before swine.

    Your fellow alumnus is destined for the rod.
     
  7. Zenas

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    I would say this guy is in a small minority, even among the more liberal mainline Christians. Most of them will deny that the Bible is to be taken literally, but very few would say it is just another book written without divine inspiration.

    If this person is willing to dialog with you, perhaps you could spend some time showing him how the entire scripture spins a seamless web of redemption, even though it was written over some 1,500 years. Ordinary books don't do that.
     
  8. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    The "real world" which the God he denigrates will judge soon. Sucks to be him.
     
  9. JohnnyReb

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    This guys reasoning is beyond my comprehension. I've not met any believer who denies the Bible is Gods word. Of course I don't know any Mormons but I wouldn't consider them a believer anyway.
     
  10. preacher4truth

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    Agreed. Mormons are not Christian. We live next door to one, and she is so set on putting in her 'Mormonism advertising plug' about how good she is, how good the people in their cult are, and the unreleenting comment that she is a 'christian'. She's not and neither are they.

    But as to the OP the indictment on others that they believe the Scriptures to being just another 'book' the same can also be leveled upon Baptists (and upon other solid denominations as well).

    The evidence of this is myriad, but one in particular is evidenced when a person rejects solid Biblical theology and sound doctrine in favor of whimsical fanaticism and allows personal experience, 'enthusiast' false doctrine to transcend this revealed truth and override rightly handling the Word. These too are seeing the Bible as just another book as it takes second place in authority to their personal views, 'miraculous, divine revelations' &c, and is true whether the person or persons realize it or not.

    Go figure.
     
  11. JohnnyReb

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    Preacher4truth....I agree. But I've come to accept there's just no way anyone is going to agree about everything. Different eyes see different things. In the past year I've stopped casting stones at those I disagree with because most likely they feel the same about me. So what good does it do.

    I'm sure you can apply your theory to me as well according to our friendly disagreements in other threads. You may view some of my opinions as denying truth or whatever, and that's ok. I view you as a brother because I believe you keep the 2 greatest commandments, and I do as well. I think the fact we, and others, can disagree and not burn each other at the stake pleases God.

    But to deny the bible as a whole and call it just another book is above and beyond you and I, or whoever, having a doctrine squabble.

    Ultimately Christ teaches us the 2 greatest commandments.....to love God and love your neighbor. To not view the bible as the word of god is to not love its creator and inspiration, but we can still love our neibor whether we view them as missing the mark on biblical teaching or not.
     
  12. salzer mtn

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    I cannot keep the two greatest commandments, nor can you.
     
  13. preacher4truth

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    JohnnyReb,

    Good words and thanks. I would like to expand a bit on what you've stated and what I've meant in my statement. I believe we should take the 'casting stones' issue and unpack that a bit, Biblically speaking. Your statement sounds nice, and it is appeasing, but it simply doesn't cover other bases.

    I believe we should be cautious to not call all rebuke 'casting stones' nor should we think of it as ugly, nor should we see it as always at a person, but at their teaching. In fact, we are told and commanded to rebuke false teachings. In the economy of today's 'church' to do so is frowned upon and looked upon as 'unloving'. That conclusion is untrue and an unfortunate stance. It doesn't reflect what true love encompasses, which is what we call 'tough love' and it fails to see the rebukes that Jesus, Paul, Peter, Jude &c leveled upon others, even calling some out by name.

    I hope you consider and understand my intent here. I HAVE to look at all sides of the issue, not just the 'lovey' side that the church today wants to use to the exclusion of many other facets. It's not practicing sound doctrine to do so, nor is it rightly handling the Word of truth -- 2 Timothy 3:16ff, 2 Timothy 4:ff; 2 Timothy 2:15.

    Thanks for that. I want you to know my former reply to this post was not directed at you, but to whom the shoe fits.

    I also feel that this should be said -- we shouldn't feel that because we have been rebuked that the other is burning us at the stake. Such an attitude is used to turn the tables back on the other person instead of focusing on 'what if what he or she said IS true about me'? The former attitude, not the latter reflects the church today -- incapable of being corrected, incapable of hearing rebuke.

    That was my point. Many do make the Scriptures just another book by transcending it in practice and justifying their unbiblical practices, while rebuking others when called upon it. It's the Judges protocol -- persons doing what is right in their own eyes, placing 'experience' above Biblical doctrine and revelation.

    True which is why I further qualified Biblical love up above. Love isn't what the church deems it to be, nor is it defined rightly by using it as an excuse for attacking a person who exposes error. I'm certain you agree that we must look at all sides of Biblical love which uincludes being held accountable. It's like the love of God for us, He disciplines us, and we either accept that or figh it, but nonetheless it is true love, Hebrews 12:7-29.

    Then there is this passage as well, 'For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life' -- Proverbs 6:23, and this is difficult for many persons within the church to accept.

    Thanks for the dialogue. I hope you can accept the balance of biblical love presented.

    Peace and Grace.
     
  14. preacher4truth

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    Excellent. I was going to address this in the same fashion as it is true. Christ has fulfilled this for us, yet we are to practice it, although we cannot perfectly do it, yet we should become more like Him as we grow. People seem to state these commands as if they actually keep them. They don't. They also state these commands as if to do so equals access to Heaven, which is impossible.
     
  15. JohnnyReb

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    Not perfectly no. But I practice it to the best of my ability. And knowing you can't isn't an excuse not to strive for it

    I am under the assumption that everyone already knows we aren't perfect and can't do everything perfectly. So when I make these statements I see no need to clarify it. Geez if we had to clarify we aren't perfect on everything we say or claim what a long post they would be.
     
    #15 JohnnyReb, Oct 8, 2013
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  16. JohnnyReb

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    Preacher4...no I did not take the post as directed at me. Just using us an an example.

    I also do not consider a respectful rebuke as casting a stone. How a rebuke is handled really constitutes whether a stone is thrown or not. If we follow the 2nd greatest commandment then our rebukes will not turn into stones
     
  17. preacher4truth

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    I can bend a little to agree with that to an extent.

    That isn't necessarily true. The 'you're throwing stones' accusation in today's church is typically a cop out and it all goes back to the false view of true love we addressed up above. And to the contrary, how a rebuke is handled by the recipient is actually a reflection of who they really are. Consider the Pharisees for instance.

    I'm certain the Pharisees felt the rebukes they received were 'stones' being cast, and Jesus kept all the commands perfectly and is the only one to ever do so.

    That said, I disagree. They often turn into 'stones' in the mind of the recipient when the intent nor delivery of one giving it was casting stones.

    Again, the position you present actually shows yet again the wrong view of love within the church - GIVEN it is true that in some instances a believer may use a bad spirited delivery.

    Yet even if the delivery is wrong, the person should still examine their heart and lose their pride. I am reminded of Shimei who attacked David, and threw stones, and David said it was of God. Perhaps he examined his heart as well.

    2Sa 16:6 He threw stones at David and at all the servants of King David; and all the people and all the mighty men were at his right hand and at his left.

    2Sa 16:7 Thus Shimei said when he cursed, "Get out, get out, you man of bloodshed, and worthless fellow!

    2Sa 16:8 "The LORD has returned upon you all the bloodshed of the house of Saul, in whose place you have reigned; and the LORD has given the kingdom into the hand of your son Absalom. And behold, you are taken in your own evil, for you are a man of bloodshed!"

    2Sa 16:9 Then Abishai the son of Zeruiah said to the king, "Why should this dead dog curse my lord the king? Let me go over now and cut off his head."

    2Sa 16:10 But the king said, "What have I to do with you, O sons of Zeruiah? If he curses, and if the LORD has told him, 'Curse David,' then who shall say, 'Why have you done so?'"

    2Sa 16:11 Then David said to Abishai and to all his servants, "Behold, my son who came out from me seeks my life; how much more now this Benjamite? Let him alone and let him curse, for the LORD has told him.

    2Sa 16:12 "Perhaps the LORD will look on my affliction and return good to me instead of his cursing this day."

    Peace
     
  18. Yeshua1

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    reminds me of the vie wof barth that bible "become" the word of God to you when the Spirit quickens it to you!

    or in Charasmatic churches, where they say there is a Logos and Rheume part of the Bible!
     
  19. saturneptune

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    Because the question is vital in today's world, putting the Bible in the same category as a Dr. Seuss book, which is about as deep as you comprehend.

    To refresh your memory............

    One fish
    Two fish
    Red fish
    Blue fish
     
  20. saturneptune

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    This is an excellent thread. The Bible is the Living Word of God. It is the Creator's message to man. 2 Timothy 3:16 puts it very well. Of course, for it to be set apart from "another book" is the Illumination of the Holy Spirit, the sign of a true Christian. In this Holy Word, one could have read a verse hundreds of times, then, bingo, a new spiritual truth comes across. This is a book of the heart. All others are books of the head.
     
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