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Featured Is the Catholic Church a cult ?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by lakeside, May 25, 2015.

  1. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki Well-Known Member
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    Act_9:31 Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.
    Act_15:41 And he went through Syria and Cilicia, confirming the churches.
    Act_16:5 And so were the churches established in the faith, and increased in number daily.
    Act_19:37 For ye have brought hither these men, which are neither robbers of churches, nor yet blasphemers of your goddess.
    Rom_16:4 Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles.
    Rom_16:16 Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you.
    1Co_7:17 But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.
    1Co_11:16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.
    1Co_14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
    1Co_14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
    1Co_16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
    1Co_16:19 The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house.
    2Co_8:1 Moreover, brethren, we do you to wit of the grace of God bestowed on the churches of Macedonia;
    2Co_8:18 And we have sent with him the brother, whose praise is in the gospel throughout all the churches;
    2Co_8:19 And not that only, but who was also chosen of the churches to travel with us with this grace, which is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord, and declaration of your ready mind:
    2Co_8:23 Whether any do enquire of Titus, he is my partner and fellowhelper concerning you: or our brethren be enquired of, they are the messengers of the churches, and the glory of Christ.
    2Co_8:24 Wherefore shew ye to them, and before the churches, the proof of your love, and of our boasting on your behalf.
    2Co_11:8 I robbed other churches, taking wages of them, to do you service.
    2Co_11:28 Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.
    2Co_12:13 For what is it wherein ye were inferior to other churches, except it be that I myself was not burdensome to you? forgive me this wrong.
    Gal_1:2 And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:
    Gal_1:22 And was unknown by face unto the churches of Judaea which were in Christ:
    1Th_2:14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
    2Th_1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
    Rev_1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
    Rev_1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
    Rev_1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
    Rev_2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
    Rev_2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
    Rev_2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
    Rev_2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
    Rev_2:29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
    Rev_3:6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
    Rev_3:13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
    Rev_3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
    Rev_22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
     
  2. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki Well-Known Member
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    The True Universal Catholic Church is made up of local autonomous congregations with Christ at the head of each local congregation.

    No such that exists in scripture like the Roman Catholic Hierarchy of Power

    There are no more apostles today, only individual churches with Pastors at the head under the authority of Christ.
     
  3. lakeside

    lakeside New Member

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    Jordan, yes the writers say churches, but show me where Jesus [ in red in KJV ] said "my churches"? Along with a verse where Jesus gave all Authority to His Holy Bible ? Nowhere does God give more power and authority to the Holy Bible over His church, nowhere. Sola Scriptura in an invention of men.
     
  4. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki Well-Known Member
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    I fear for Catholics when they stand before God having lusted in their hearts, committing murder in their hearts, coveting, stealing, placing things in their lives before God.

    Every Catholic has broken God's commandments, and no amount of water, confession, taking the eucharist, or penance can take away their sin.

    It is only, I repeat ONLY through accepting Jesus Christ as personal savior and receiving his shed blood as the one payment and only hope of eternal life, that the Catholic or anyone else can be saved.

    Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
    1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
    1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
    1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

    You are saved by placing your trust and dependance on the death burial and resurrection of Christ.

    Lakeside you would do well to learn this passage of scripture:

    Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
    Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
    Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
    Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
    Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

    Mat 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
    Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
    Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
    Mat 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.


    The Roman Catholic church is a whited sepulchre, and you are deceived if you think the sacraments and rituals of the Catholic church make you righteous, you know deep down inside that you are a wicked ungodly sinner.

    Repent of this, or you will be perish Lakeside.

    The righteousness of your Roman Catholic Religion is a filthy rag in the sight of God.
     
  5. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki Well-Known Member
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    1. Sacramental salvation is contrary to the examples of salvation in the book of Acts (Acts 10:43: 11:16-18; 14:27; 15:9-11; 16:30-31). The souls that were saved in the early churches were saved once and for all by putting their faith in Jesus Christ. Their salvation was not a process of sacramentalism.

    2. Sacramental salvation is contrary to the teaching of the book of Romans. This book is written expressly to reveal the way of salvation (Romans 1:15-17).

    Consider Romans 3:21-24; 4:4-6; 11:6. Notice in the last reference that God says it is impossible to mix grace and works for salvation. We are saved by grace or we are saved by works; it cannot be a mixture of the two as the Catholic Church teaches!

    3. Sacramental salvation is also contrary to the Gospel of John, which was written expressly to lead men to eternal life in Christ (John 20:31).

    The first twelve chapters of John describe Jesus’ ministry to the world of lost men. In these chapters, we are shown by unmistakable emphasis that eternal life and salvation are received by faith in Jesus Christ and faith in Christ alone. “Believe” is the key word in these chapters. See John 1:12; 3:16-18, 36; 5:24; 6:28-29; 7:38-39; 8:24; 9:35-38; 11:25-26; 12:36-37. Notice that in all of these verses we are told that salvation is obtained through faith in Christ and there is no hint of sacramentalism.

    4. Sacramental salvation is contrary to the summary of the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. Here Paul summarizes the gospel that he preached, and it is faith in the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. Period. There is no sacramentalism whatsoever. No priests; no church; no works; no sacraments.

    5. Sacramental salvation is contrary to the summary of the gospel in Ephesians 2:8-10. This passage teaches that salvation is a free gift of God’s grace and that works follow as the evidence. This puts everything into proper order and perspective. It is God’s will that men live holy lives, but holy living is the product of salvation and not the way of salvation.

    6. Sacramental salvation is contrary to the summary of the gospel in Titus 3:4-8. This passage also teaches that salvation is a free gift of God’s grace and that works follow as the evidence and product.

    This is true Bible salvation. Eternal life, forgiveness of sin, righteousness, and the Holy Spirit are received when an individual acknowledges his sinfulness, repents of his sin and trusts Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. It is only after this that a person can do any work to please God. Works and ceremonies, such as baptism and the Lord’s Supper, in themselves have nothing to do with forgiveness of sin, eternal life, the new birth, or becoming a child of God. Rather, obedience to God follows salvation as naturally as living follows ones natural birth. First we must receive new life through personal faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Then, having life, the regenerated believer serves his Master.
     
  6. lakeside

    lakeside New Member

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    Jordan, stop tap dancing around my questions to you in my last post. Why are you avoiding my previous post ? Be honest and play fair.
     
  7. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki Well-Known Member
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    Your post is irrelevant to the real issue which is the issue that your religion cannot get you to heaven and it does not make you righteous in the eyes of a holy God.

    You really think being baptized, praying to Mary, taking the Eucharist and going through all those rituals is going to take away your sin?

    It's not going to anymore than the Jews who went through all the traditions of the Pharisees did.

    Lakeside, Repent now while you still have time, leave behind your rags of religion and put on the true righteousness of Jesus Christ.

    You don't have to keep yourself under the heavy burden of keeping the Catholic Traditions, you don't have to fear not being good enough, Receive Jesus Christ as your ONLY savior! Rely ONLY upon him!

    1Jn 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
    1Jn 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

    Lakeside do you KNOW for sure 100 percent WITHOUT A DOUBT, that you have eternal life?

    If it's up to you keeping the sacraments and being good, you will NEVER be able to KNOW!

    The only way to KNOW is by asking the Lord Jesus Christ to be your savior and placing your trust in him!

    Our Lord is a wonderful savior and many Catholics have learned that Jesus Christ can cleanse their souls and give them peace.

    admit it, inside your heart, you KNOW the Catholic Religion gives you no peace, you know inside your heart your a sinner! God promises no peace to the wicked!

    Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved!
     
    #87 Jordan Kurecki, May 30, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: May 30, 2015
  8. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki Well-Known Member
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    my dear brothers and sisters on the Baptist Board, pray for Lakeside, I have presented him the truth and tried to do it in love, while at the same time being straight forward.

    This man needs God to open his eyes and we must not forget that even though he clings to Popish traditions, that he has an eternal soul.

    Lakeside I am praying that you will come to the truth and the light.
     
  9. plain_n_simple

    plain_n_simple Active Member

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    Anything that puts itself in high regard, vision and understanding above others, can become a cult. A cult can be in varying degrees according to the pride present. The Pharisees considered Jesus a cult. But which one had pride? Apollos? Paul? Christ?
     
  10. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    So if my neighbor is a Muslim, I should kill him? Is this what you advocate?
    That is what you proudly are boasting about now--your "Christian" past. But the Christians, like the Albigenses that were slaughtered along the way, were just "a little extra blood," something for fun?? Christians should enjoy blood-sports? Killing others? Is that the nature of your brand of Christianity? How do you defend that from the Bible?
    Those Albigenses were pacifists. They didn't believe in war, and yet the RCC killed them anyway. It is apparent you know nothing of history.
    What you need to know about "history," is that it is really "His Story," and not yours.
     
  11. Rebel

    Rebel Active Member

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    The degree framed and hanging on my wall says I do. And I didn't get it from a Landmark Bible college, either.
     
  12. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    How about a plug here for Liberty:laugh:
     
  13. lakeside

    lakeside New Member

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    Make sure you guys take note that not one of you even made any attempt to answer my previous questions – easy, scripturally–based questions that any infallible interpreter of Scripture, which you anti-Catholics apparently think you are, should have no problem answering whatsoever. As I previously predicted, you would not answer my questions and you would feign indignation and withdraw from the field to avoid the embarrassment of people realizing that you, Mr. Scripture and History scholar { Rebel }, actually cannot answer those questions.

    So, here is another easy question, so that you will know that your theology does not have an answer for these questions, and I invite all to take note that Rebel, EWF, plain and simple, DHK, McCree, Jordan will not answer these very simple questions, because they are incapable of doing so. And, when you realize that, I hope you will also realize that you can trust almost nothing that they pen from the Bible, because they knows not that about which they speak:

    Can you give me one example in the Bible of a Christian who was saved by reading the Bible?
     
  14. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No one has claimed that a person is “saved by reading the Bible.” You should reword it. Is it the gospel that is the power of God for salvation or is it the Church. Romans 1:16 and 1 Corinthians 1:18 presents it as the gospel - NOT the Church.

    Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

    1 Corinthians 1:18 For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

    An example of this truth is found in the witness of Philip and the Ethiopian in Acts 8.

    Acts 8:30-39 Philip ran up and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet, and said, "Do you understand what you are reading?" And he said, "Well, how could I, unless someone guides me?" And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him. Now the passage of Scripture which he was reading was this: "HE WAS LED AS A SHEEP TO SLAUGHTER; AND AS A LAMB BEFORE ITS SHEARER IS SILENT, SO HE DOES NOT OPEN HIS MOUTH. "IN HUMILIATION HIS JUDGMENT WAS TAKEN AWAY; WHO WILL RELATE HIS GENERATION? FOR HIS LIFE IS REMOVED FROM THE EARTH." The eunuch answered Philip and said, "Please tell me, of whom does the prophet say this? Of himself or of someone else?" Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him.
    As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch *said, "Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?" [And Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."] And he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him.

    The problem is that you, like the Ethiopian, do not understand what you are reading. The difference is that you, unlike the Ethiopian, replace Scripture and the gospel as the power for salvation and replace it with the Roman Catholic Church.
     
    #94 JonC, May 31, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: May 31, 2015
  15. lakeside

    lakeside New Member

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    I am sorry that you have brought your pre–determined beliefs to the Bible and thereby have to twist the Scriptures to make them say what you want them to say. And, I am sorry that you will not directly answer the questions that I have posed here and the arguments that I have made here.
     
  16. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    First, your beliefs have been predetermined by the RCC. You freely admit this. I simply gave you Scripture. And yes, God's Word preexisted my faith and it is His Word that determines my faith.

    I, and others, have answered your questions. Your hybrid religion only creates logical fallacies. Your faith is in the RCC. Flesh cannot discern things of the Spirit, the world cannot understand these truths of Scripture. To them it is foolishness. As you demonstrate, you cannot comprehend the Kingdom except as a physical organization passed down through time. You accept a false history that places the RCC at the origin of the Church, but fail to realize that you are blind to the very nature of the Church. All of your arguments hinge on "the RCC says so. You, my friend, are unfortunately in darkness. At one time I thought perhaps you were purposefully ignoring what others were saying. But now I realize you are in darkness, blind to the Truth. I was once there also (not RCC, but unable to understand). Understanding can come, but it will not be through the RCC. I am not saying abandon your religion, I am saying turn to God.

    John 3:3-5 Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?" Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

    Have you, Lakeside, been “born from above” or are you relying on the RCC to save you? We are not talking merely of forgiveness of sin alone.

    Ezekiel 36:24-27 "For I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands and bring you into your own land. "Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.

    What evidences do you have of your salvation? That was the question that Nicodemus had (that was the debate that separated many Jewish sects of that time). How do you know that you are saved? It is on the week faith in the RCC, that they say they have saved you? Church does not save, not even your beloved RCC.

    Again, I’m not saying that you need to leave the RCC. If you are unwilling to turn to God, then you might as well stay. What I am saying is that you need to turn from your own righteousness, from what you believe to be a righteousness through the RCC, and turn to God. Until that time, you will not understand and I don’t expect you to understand.

    I offer you this….a salvation that does not come from the RCC: “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved” (Acts 16:31). “If you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved” (Romans 10:9). “By grace are you saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God—not of works, lest any man should boast” (Ephesians 2:8). “I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me; and the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me” (Galatians 2:20).
     
    #96 JonC, May 31, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: May 31, 2015
  17. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    Give me one example of the church saving a man in the bible. Then I will show you salvation(your interpretation) contradictory to scripture and of works. The church saves no one. Tradition saves no one. Salvation is of the Lord alone.
     
  18. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    No one that was ever saved was saved apart from the Word of God.
     
  19. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Surely you jest.
    Everyone who even gives a cursory glance at this thread knows who is the one who is not answering questions. Look at the previous page. Consider all the scripture that has been given you. Not one response has been given by you.
     
  20. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    1. It is not true that the word "Catholic" means all Christians - all Christian churches to the RCC - because the RCC does not practice open Communion.

    2. It is not true that the word "Catholic" means all Christians - all Christian churches because the RCC declares that the "New Covenant" is confined to the Catholic mass and that those who do not partake of Catholic mass are not under the New Covenant.

    3. IF the RCC were to start today - with all the prayers to the dead, and wild claims about the New Covenant - everyone would call it a cult.
     
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