Is the Catholic church the harlot of Revelation?

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by uhdum, Sep 13, 2002.

  1. uhdum

    uhdum
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    Sure, this argument has been around for ages. But I have a few friends who claim that it is and is constantly harshly condemning the Catholic church (and its members). I realize there are Catholics that are saved (along with people in any denomination), but sadly, in typical Landmarkist fasion, my friends do not. Whether the church will be used in some form in the Antichrist's reign I have no opinion, but I do know that we aren't do hate and despise people of other denominations or religions.

    So what are your opinions? And if it were (hypothetical) the "great harlot", wouldn't we still be commanded to love them (because God loves them)?

    [ September 13, 2002, 12:34 AM: Message edited by: uhdum ]
     
  2. BrianT

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    The RCC has been a popular interpretation for centuries. I think it's a possibility, but personally I think that scripturally, Jerusalem (Christ-rejecting Judaism) is a much better fit.

    Of course.
     
  3. Johnv

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    In a word, no. That kinds of interpretation is something you might find in a Hal Lindsay type mentality of revelation interpretation (and we all know Hal Lindsay's success rate on predictions is dismally poor).

    I think anti-catholics would like to be, but I don't think it is.
     
  4. Bible-belted

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    A word of correction. The historicist interpretation goes back to Reformation. Hal Lindsay may perpetuate this particular point, but it has significantly more history than that. At one point historicism was called "the protestatn interpretation".

    BTW I don't think of the RCC this way either.
     
  5. Grasshopper

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    I think it is possibly the Catholic church of the future, not in it's current form.
     
  6. susanpet

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    Could be.

    Susan
     
  7. go2church

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    I went from an A on a paper to a B because I didn't call the RCC the harlot in Revelation when I was in college, so I know of at least one prof that thinks so.
     
  8. MHolmes

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    The "Harlot" of Revelation was the Roman Empire, which the author clearly states.

    Revelation 17:9. Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits...

    Everyone in the first century knew that the seven mountains referred to the city of Rome. Why reach for some mystical, futuristic interpretation when the meaning would have been clear to those first century Christians to whom the book was written.

    It cannot be the Catholic church because the Catholic church did not exist when that scripture was written. It can be the Roman Empire because:

    1. At the time that Revelation was written, Emperor worship was fully established and people were persecuted for not worshipping the emperor.

    2. John defines "antichrist" (I John 4:1-3)as any spirit who does not acknowledge Jesus as having come in the flesh. This would have created immediate conflict with emperor worship because those who worshipped the emperor (Caesar), and Caesar himself, would have been "antichrist" by John's definition.

    3. Christians were singled out and mercilessly persecuted during the period immediately after Revelation was written because they would not acknowledge that Caesar was God, but instead honored another man, Jesus, as God in the flesh.

    The Catholic Church cannot be "antichrist" or the harlot of Revelation because it does not deny that Jesus is God in the flesh.

    [ September 14, 2002, 10:21 AM: Message edited by: MHolmes ]
     
  9. TheOliveBranch

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    Doesn't the Vatican sit on those seven hills?
     
  10. rsr

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    No, it doesn't. It occupies about a quarter of a square mile. Rome occupies the hills.
     
  11. TheOliveBranch

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    I found this to be a very interesting site:

    Vatican
     
  12. Alliswell

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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Speaking of Hal Lindsey, He told of a site in Rome that is built like a huge communion glass. I can't remember it's name but it has to do with communion. Maybe 'The Chalice'?

    It has a hugh central meeting area, and all around are separate halls for the religions of the world, including shamanism, and the eastern religions. They have had conventions and the and all are given ecumenical public expression, including a dance by a witch doctor.

    The harlot sits on many waters. The movement has already begun in the United Nations Religious Summit 2000, produced and financed by Ted Turner who dismissed Christianity as an acceptable religion. He said as a child, he had even considered becoming a missionary, "but my group thought we were the only ones going to heaven and that scared me. There were not many of us."

    Christianity is hated because we believe that the Word of God teaches that Jesus is the only Savior.

    The new politically correct theology is "multiculturalism"!

    I would be interested to hear which of Hal Lindsey's predictions have failed.

    I know he wrote 'The 80's Countdown to Armageddon' in which the quoted some of the predictions of scientists that did not happen, such as the Jupiter effect, but the keyword iis 'Countdown' and events keep marching in the direction that the ancient prophets said they will and I have never seen him actually set a date.

    I seem to always jump in when any Christian ministry is gossiped about!
     
  13. Baptist Vine

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    Can anyone really be expected to know this?

    What could possibly be said beyond, 'I suppose so', which means there is just as much chance that it couldn't be?
     
  14. GraceSaves

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    I realize I'm not really supposed to post here, so if this needs deleted, that's fine. I just wanted to say thank you for those who have responded here. I'm glad that there are many of you here who do not fall for the anti Catholic attacks. I grew up Lutheran, in which this matter (the papacy is the anti-Christ, Vatican is the harlot) was a matter of CLOSED discussion, as if this was perfectly revealed in Scriptures. It's still a huge problem that my parents and I must work out, for to be Lutheran is to simply believe this without question.

    Thanks again, as this has brightened my day. I'm glad that you do not denounce my relationship with my God and Savior!
     
  15. Baptist Vine

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    GraceSaves, I don't have enough knowledge to judge your relationship with your God and Saviour. Why, I don't even know who the Harlot of Revelation is.

    A scripture comes to mind: "Grace to all who love our Lord Jesus Christ with an undying love." Eph. 6:24

    You see? It says, '...all those...'.
     
  16. Rev. G

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    No.

    Rev. G
     
  17. tyndale1946

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    I say no also but add from Revelation: Four Views... A Parallel Commentary by Steve Gregg quoting from The Parousia by Stuart Russell... The Harlot is seated on the Beast, and thus on the seven hills of Rome; in other words, apostate Judaism, centered in the city of Jerusalem, is supported by the Roman Empire... The Roman Catholic Church is 400 years to late!... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
  18. hrhema

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    The book of Revelation was not dealing with events happening at the time it was being written so no saying it was Judaism backed by Rome is not correct.

    In Revelation 11 Jerusalem was refered to as Sodom and Egypt not Babylon.

    The reasons many have felt like this is the RCC
    is the description of the wearing of purple and scarlet which are significant colors of the RCC.
    Also the gold and magnificent jewelry she was wearing signifies the riches of the woman. The RCC is very rich in Rome and has a lot of Gold but the main reason is where the scriptures talks about her being drunk. Drunk with the blood of God's holy people. Who can dispute the terrible history of the RCC and the thousands of believers they murdered and the horrible torture they used on these people. If you read Foxes Book of Martyrs and read the insidiousness of all of this you would not question why so many believe this.

    I know it is not politically correct to say things like this but history speaks for it self.

    Judaism may not have accepted Christianity but no where do we find such a blood bath by the Jews against the Christians as the RCC perpetrated during the dark ages and during the inquisitions.
     
  19. tyndale1946

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    I have read the Bible... Foxes Book of Martyrs... and Josephus... I never heard the Lord call the RCC the Harlot but if you read the Ezekiel 16 you will find her.

    Ezekiel 16: 2 Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations... Her whoredoms are publicly declared in the word of God... The Mother of Harlots was never the RCC!... Jerusalem was laid waste in 70 A.D. because it was drunk with the blood of the martyrs, the saints and the Son of God... You speak about a blood bath you need to read more early church history... His blood be on us and all our children... No doubt in my mind the RCC does not fit the pattern but Babylon and Jerusalem fit it to a tee!... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
  20. Wisdom Seeker

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    Yes I believe that it will be used to fill that possition.

    As far as what you said about people hating Catholic people... I don't hate anybody.
     

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