Is The Voice Bible Version The Anti-Christ?

Discussion in 'Books / Publications Forum' started by Hark, Feb 2, 2016.

  1. Hark

    Hark
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Messages:
    667
    Likes Received:
    5
    Here is what most Bible version will attest to.

    1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. KJV

    Here is what the Voice Bible version is attesting to.

    1 John 2:22 The liar is the one who says, “Jesus is not really the Anointed One.” This is the antiChrist, the one denying both the Father and the Son. 23 Anyone who denies the Son does not know the Father. The one affirming the Son enjoys an intimate relationship with the Father as well. The Voice

    The irony is that instead of saying antiAnounted One, the Voice went on to say antiChrist.

    Christ is a reference to deity. To deny the Son is the Christ is to deny the Father. See?

    Anointed One is a poor and lesser meaning than what the Christ actually means, because all believers are anointed, but we are not the Christ.

    1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. KJV

    Look at the Voice Bible version of that verse.

    1 John 2:27 You have an anointing. You received it from Him, and His anointing remains on you. You do not need any other teacher. But as His anointing instructs you in all the essentials (all the truth uncontaminated by darkness and lies), it teaches you this: “Remain connected to Him.” The Voice

    Just because we have the anointing aka the Holy Ghost, that does not make us God.


    Even John the Baptist was so endowed with the Holy Ghost made this distinction in bearing witness in the KJV.

    John 3:28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him. 29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled. 30 He must increase, but I must decrease. KJV

    But the Voice goes on to having John the Baptist denying He has the Holy Ghost.

    John 3:28 I have said it many times, and you have heard me—I am not the Anointed One; I am the one who comes before Him. 29 If you are confused, consider this: the groom is the one with the bride. The best man takes his place close by and listens for him. When he hears the voice of the groom, he is swept up in the joy of the moment. So hear me. My joy could not be more complete. 30 He, the groom, must take center stage; and I, the best man, must step to His side. The Voice

    The preface of the Voice is quoted below as to why they did this:

    https://www.biblegateway.com/versions/The-Voice-Bible/


    That's pretty much overlooking the significance of Christ as God.

    Since almost all modern Bibles maintained that Jesus is the Christ, is the Voice guilty of denying the Son as the Christ by calling the Son, only the Anointed One, thus denying His deity by denying the Father and the Son? Is the Voice the antichrist then?
     
  2. JonC

    JonC
    Expand Collapse
    Lifelong Disciple
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    6,984
    Likes Received:
    373
    Messiah (Christ) literally means the "Anointed One".
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Hark

    Hark
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Messages:
    667
    Likes Received:
    5
    If you take the Concordance's word for it, but since the N.T. used that term Christ in the way that title was used in the verse, then Christ means more than the Anointed One when it involves denying the Father.

    1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. KJV

    So no. Christ cannot mean what Biblical scholars says it means when they are ignoring how Christ is being used in the verses as identifying with deity.

    1 Corinthians 10:4 and did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. AKJV
     
  4. JonC

    JonC
    Expand Collapse
    Lifelong Disciple
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    6,984
    Likes Received:
    373
    I disagree. To deny Jesus is the Messiah (that is, in Greek, the Christ) is to deny that He is the Anointed One (not "an anointed one" but the Anointed One of Whom the OT prophets foretold). While I do not like the interpretation provided, and I think it confusing, the translation is correct that the Anointed One is the same as Christ and Messiah.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. TCassidy

    TCassidy
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    12,240
    Likes Received:
    1,322
    In the Old Testament the word for Messiah (Hebrew מָשִׁיחַ - mâshı̂yach) comes from a form of the word מָשַׁח (mâshach) meaning "to rub" as in rubbing oil, or anointing, a person. The word was used to mean a consecrated person (as a king, or a priest) and came to be used specifically of the Messiah.

    The Greek word is Χριστός (Christos) from the word χρίω (chriō) meaning to rub (with oil) and by implication to consecrate to an office or religious service: - to anoint.

    I think this might be a case of trying to be too literal in translating the Greek into English but to call the translation "Anti-Christ" is just ignorance in action. :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Hark

    Hark
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Messages:
    667
    Likes Received:
    5
    Pneuma is a Greek text that has many definitions which requires seeing how it is used in the verse, because not every pneuma is referring to the Person of the Holy Spirit.

    That means how the text is used in scripture gives it its definition.

    So.. is the Father the Anointed One also? How is denying the Son as being the Anointed One is denying the Father at the same time? Who Anointed the Father?

    1 Corinthians 10:4 identifies Rock with Christ.

    A word search at Bible Gateway shows references linking rock with deity.

    https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=rock+God&qs_version=KJV

    And are we a christ since we are anointed? So no, we are not a christ even though we are anointed.

    I am saying that the way Christ is used in the verse is overlooking the all important definition by modern day scholars that Christ means God.

    Matthew 16:16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

    Matthew 26:63But Jesus held his peace, And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.

    From Peter's revelation given by the Father and the accuser that sought to condemn Jesus to death, Christ is referring to God as in deity.

    That is what I believe is missing from concordances and Biblical scholars today.

    And there is another popular christian forum that has a member that believed we are a christ. Not sure how we can avoid this warning or even have fellowship if we all started believing in that way.

    Matthew 24:3 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

    This is why I believe concordances & Biblical scholars fall short on this.
     
  7. Hark

    Hark
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Messages:
    667
    Likes Received:
    5
    The question was raised because by applying those actual verses in the KJV to what the Voice was doing, you may see what I see that Christ cannot mean just "the Anointed One" by the way it was used in the verse. How can the Father be denied at the same time by denying that the Son is the Anointed One? The Voice is using the "Anointed One" to refer to the Son being King, but that says nothing of His deity.

    The concordance and Biblical scholars fall short in how Christ is being used in that verse to mean.
     
  8. JonC

    JonC
    Expand Collapse
    Lifelong Disciple
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    6,984
    Likes Received:
    373
    I am not sure what you mean here. Of course the Father is not the Anointed One, the Messiah, the Christ. If you doubt this then perhaps you will find a journey through the Psalms enlightening. Or perhaps Isaiah, or Ezekiel. Throughout the Old Testament the prophets looked to the Anointed One who would deliver God's people. Guess what? The gospel message is that this Anointed One has come.

    It is not a matter of choosing what we want terms to mean. Scripture defines Scripture.

    The Hebrew Old Testament refers to God's Anointed One (מָשִׁיחַ‎) as does the Septuagint (χριστός). In other words, the Greek χριστός is Hebrew word מָשִׁיחַ. This word means "anointed one". The word for מָשִׁיחַ in English is Messiah. The word for Χριστός in English is Christ. The Old Testament defines these words, and it is not up to us to ascribe to them other meanings. If you are in doubt then you can also rely on John who gives us both the Hebrew and the Greek (Messiah and Christ for the Anointed One) in his Gospel.

    Perhaps instead of relying on whatever logic you are supposing you would be better off just to allow Scripture to define itself (as you are in this thread denying more than just the passage upon which you have set your focus). It's just a suggestion and we can always simply part on good terms even in disagreement.
     
  9. TCassidy

    TCassidy
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    12,240
    Likes Received:
    1,322
    Where does the Voice say it is only referring to Christ as King? If that is true (it isn't) then why does the Voice capitalize "Anointed One?" It is patently obvious the Voice is referring to The Anointed One, The Christ, The Messiah, The Mâshı̂yach.
     
    #9 TCassidy, Feb 2, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2016
  10. TCassidy

    TCassidy
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    12,240
    Likes Received:
    1,322
    What? Pneuma is a Greek Text? I thought Pneuma was a Greek word. The word for "wind" "breath" or "spirit."

    When did Pneuma get promoted to a Greek Text?

    I am aware of the Alexandrian text.

    I am aware of the Byzantine text.

    But what is the Pneumatic text?

    Sounds like a bunch of hot air being blown about by somebody who has no idea what he is talking about. <roll eyes>
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. TCassidy

    TCassidy
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    12,240
    Likes Received:
    1,322
    Actually the English translation of Χριστος is "The Anointed (One)." "Christ" is a transliteration of Χριστος, not a translation. :)

    Just like "Messiah" is a transliteration of Mâshı̂yach, the translation being "The Anointed (One)." :)
     
    #11 TCassidy, Feb 2, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2016
    • Like Like x 1
  12. JonC

    JonC
    Expand Collapse
    Lifelong Disciple
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    6,984
    Likes Received:
    373
    Yes...it is a transliteration. Thanks for the correction.

    Sent from my TARDIS
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Hark

    Hark
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Messages:
    667
    Likes Received:
    5
    Here. See how denying the Son is the Christ is the same thing as denying the Father?

    1 John 2: 22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. KJV

    This is why christos cannot mean just the Anointed One.

    The term annointed is from chrio and so christos is more than that.

    Anointing is from chrisma and so again, christos is more than that. One can find how the disciples were using the term Christ by how it is used in all the verses, even the one from the accuser that condemned Him to death for answering the question put to Him which was basically, "Are you God?" because that is what Christ means.. the Son of the living God.

    Christ is the title linking Him to deity. That is why denying the Son is the Christ is the same thing as denying the Father because Christ is God.

    I am using the verses in context as well as other verses in the Bible that has been used to link Christ with deity and not just being God's Anointed One. Christ is God is what Christ means literally. By denying Jesus is the Christ, thus denying the Son, in order for the verses to have meaning about denying the Father at the same time then Christ is linked to the Triune God.

    Thanks for participating in a civil manner even if you still disagree, but the topic was posted as a question and I have shared my concern as to why I believe that it is just because of what the original verses testify of.
     
  14. Hark

    Hark
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Messages:
    667
    Likes Received:
    5
    From the Voice preface which is copyrighted at this link.

    https://www.biblegateway.com/versions/The-Voice-Bible/

    So their intentions was not to address the deity of Christ and so they fall short which they did in the meaning those verses testify of because Christ is of the Triune God for those that deny the Son to be denying the Father as well.

    1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. KJV

    1 John 2:22 The liar is the one who says, “Jesus is not really the Anointed One.” This is the antiChrist, the one denying both the Father and the Son.23 Anyone who denies the Son does not know the Father. The one affirming the Son enjoys an intimate relationship with the Father as well. The Voice
     
  15. JonC

    JonC
    Expand Collapse
    Lifelong Disciple
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    6,984
    Likes Received:
    373
    Disagreements are inevitable and they never justify treating others in an uncivil manner. Our disagreement, I believe is that I do interpret Jesus as God's Anointed One to be pointing to His deity (so here we are disagreeing in interpretation but not in the doctrine of Christ). So ultimately I see the Bible translation as confusing matters and as poorly done, but not as heretical.

    And thank you for taking the time to post your concern and discuss this with me. Until this thread I was unaware of that translation of the Bible.

    Sent from my TARDIS
     
    #15 JonC, Feb 3, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2016
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Hark

    Hark
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Messages:
    667
    Likes Received:
    5
    This site mirrors the Greek text along with the English words of the KJV.

    http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/B62C002.htm

    So stop being mean when you are supposed to be serving Him.

    Ephesians 4:29Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

    2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
     
  17. Hark

    Hark
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Messages:
    667
    Likes Received:
    5
    Thank you for sharing your views. It is believers like you that give believers courage to ask questions without fear of being made to look stupid.

    It's the only way we can grow in Christ.

    As it is, there is another christian forum that has one female member opposing my concern and had posted that believers are a "christ" too. I just cannot allow a slippery slope like that to go without sharing my concern even here to as many that He may give ears to listen that christos is more than just the Anointed One when it does point to deity and why we are not a "christ' even though we are anointed.
     
  18. TCassidy

    TCassidy
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    12,240
    Likes Received:
    1,322
    ZOOM! Right over your head!

    The point was you don't know the difference between a word and a text. You spout off like you know what you are talking about but what you say makes it clear you know nothing at all about the subject. <roll eyes>
     
  19. Hark

    Hark
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Messages:
    667
    Likes Received:
    5
    Quoting your signature.

    Is that what you are doing, coming short of calling me vile name, but attacking me personally?

    Texts and words are the same thing to me. If you were Greek, then the Greek texts would be Greek words to you and the English words would be English texts to you.

    So are you arguing semantics to avoid the issue of the OP? You are not really addressing the issue of the OP. You are just attacking me.

    Try to stick to the topic. You can do it. Come on. Reply to post #14. Let's continue the discussion in Christ's love.

    Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. 16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
     
    #19 Hark, Feb 3, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2016
  20. TCassidy

    TCassidy
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    12,240
    Likes Received:
    1,322
    As I have neither called you names nor attacked you personally your question is moot.
    That is exactly my point. You fail to understand the difference between a word and a text.
    No, they wouldn't. A word is not a text. A text is a complete or near complete iteration of a source which shows an affinity to an historic form. A word is just a word.
    Wrong again. I am pointing out the lack of foundation for your opinions which are not based on established norms of textual criticism but on your failure to understand the basics of that discipline.
     

Share This Page

Loading...