Is there a Second Baptism of the Spirit?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Dr. Bob, Mar 24, 2003.

  1. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
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    Carolyn (a non baptist) desires that BAPTISTS share their positions on this subject:

    "I am begining to understand speaking in tounges is not biblically correct. At least not the way we were taught to use it. But there does seem to be some sort of 2nd baptism."

    Encourage you to help her understand.
     
  2. Pastor Larry

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    I would ask why there "seems" to be some sort of second baptism. A newly saved man just left my house after meeting for discipleship. We spent some time talking about the baptism. He had the misfortune of coming across a book by Hagin. I showed him a few elementary things and promised to return to it later.

    Back to the point, what is she basing this "seeming" of a second baptism on?
     
  3. donnA

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    Not sure where there seems to be a second baptism of the Holy Spirit in scripture. Good biblical study will show there is only one, at salvation.
     
  4. Carolyn

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    Here are some scriptures I looked up from my notes at the Pentecostal church. I really appreciate everyones help, while I search for the truth.

    Mat. 3:11
    I indeed Baptize you with water unto repentance but he that cometh after me is mightier than I whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptise you with the Holy Ghose & w/fire.

    and the next is not directly related, but would love to hear your comments


    Acts 2:38


    Then Peter said unto tehm repent and be baptized everyone of you, itn the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and ye shall receive the gift of the holy Ghost
     
  5. Pastor Larry

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    This verse is referring to Spirit baptism but there is nothing here that would indicate more than one Spirit baptism. At the point when this is said, the baptism of the Spirit is still future; it wouldn't happen until the founding of the church. By the time of 1 Cor, Paul says that we "all" were baptized by one Spirit. This would go contrary to the Pentecostal claims that some have been baptized and some haven't.

    [/quote][/qb]Baptism is the first act of obedience following salvation.
     
  6. Carolyn

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    </font>[/QUOTE][/qb]Baptism is the first act of obedience following salvation. [/QB][/QUOTE]

    What about the gift of the Holy Spirit????
     
  7. Pastor Larry

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    The gift of the Holy Spirit comes at salvation, not subsequent to salvation. In Acts, those who repented were baptized immediately, that same day. The gift of the Holy Spirit and all that entails (baptism, sealing, indwelling, etc.) is immediate upon salvation, not subsequent.

    Never is Scripture is the believe commanded to seek the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and with good reason: there is no need to seek for what you already have. The believer is simply enjoined to be filled with the Holy Spirit, which means to be obedient to him -- to allow him to control our lives.
     
  8. Frogman

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    Saw this, and thought it best not to respond, except to say I agree with much of what Pastor Larry has stated except that the Spirit Baptism is for the future founding of the church. At this point, to go into that would only confuse the subject at hand.

    Generically, I would agree with Pastor Larry, this means that the church is that which has one time in history received the baptism of the Spirit.

    Scripture teaches the indwelling of the believer by the Spirit and makes the baptism of the Spirit on the church a separate event. The indwelling occurs at the moment of salvation.

    Bro. Dallas
     
  9. John Wells

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    Carolyn,

    The clearest scriptures that weigh heavily against Pentecostal teaching is:

    "There is one body and one Spirit— just as you were called to one hope when you were called— one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all." (Ephesians 4:4-6, NIV)

    "For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink." (1 Corinthians 12:13, NIV)

    In context, Acts 2:38 we have Peter preaching the gospel to Jews who had heretofore only heard John the Baptist's message of repentance and had been baptized with water for the remission of sins. Now that they had heard and accepted Jesus' atoning sacrifice, they now received the gift of the Holy Spirit and volunteered to be baptized with water again as an outward expression (profession) of an inner condition.

    "For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved." (Romans 10:10, NIV)

    It is at that moment that salvation and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit are received. The Ephesians passage above is referring to "one baptism" as the baptism of the Holy Spirit which only comes from faith in Jesus Christ, changing the "condition" of one's heart. Water baptism is an outward sign of that inward condition. Water baptism is an act of obedience and not what saves a person.
     
  10. atestring

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    Carolyn
    I would suggest for a non biased view on this subject that you read books by:
    Martin Loyld Jones
    and
    R.T. Kendall
    both were pastors of the historic Westminster Chapel in London.
    The are from a reformed background.
    They both have several books.
    Martin Loyld Jones is deceased but R. T. Kendall is now retired and lives and travels in the United States.
    I think you will find their writings very enlightening.
     
  11. Matt Black

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    Don Carson, "Showing the Spirit" and Jim Packer "Keep in Step with the Spirit" are also pretty good, both steering a middle line between cessationism and charismania.

    I used to believe in Second Blessing/ subsequence, but no longer; nor do I believe tongues are a sign of Spirit Baptism, which to me is synonymous with regeneration.

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
  12. atestring

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    Carolyn,
    here are few questions to look at on this subject.
    1. Were the 120 in the upper room born again the night before Pentecost or were they saved on the day of Pentecost.
    in other words if Peter had died the night before the day of Pentecost wouold he have gone to heaven, or hell? If he was saved there was a subsequent experience.
    2. In Acts 19 Paul found "certain Disciples."
    Does the term "certain disciples" imply that they were saved. If they had died before the experience that they were about to experience (which included tongues) would they have gone to heaven, or to hell?

    3. In Ephesians 1:13-14 in the KJV it says that a"after you believed ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of Promise. This is also stated in 2Corinthians 1:22. Is it possible that to be sealed is a second or subsequent experience.

    These are just questions and not opinions.
     
  13. Artimaeus

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    M R 2 opinions.
    :D

    I just looked up Baptize in Strong's Concordance Greek Dictionary and it says that BAPTIZE means to make whelmed (i.e. fully wet). Carrying the analogy to the Holy Spirit we are "covered over", "whelmed", or "fully wet" only once. We don't "dry out". Once Sealed Always Sealed, I always say. [​IMG]
    There were many Old Testament saints alive at the time of Jesus who weren't aware of what was going on in Jerusalem, when they found out they merely continued their faithfulness and were blessed with the gift of the Holy Spirit. Don't base your present belief in how the Lord works with how the Old Testament and New Testament transitioned. Practical knowledge on how to be a faithful follower of God in 100 BC was noticeably different than practical knowledge onhow to be a faithful follower of God in 100 AD. The general idea was the same (believe God), but what you believed was different in the details. Look at what was presented after the pivotal time of Pentecost to see what is the norm now. One Baptism of the Holy Spirit acknowledged by the symbol of water baptism. John the Baptist said that his baptism was only of water but the one coming after him would baptize with the Holy Spirit (no hint of multiple times).
     
  14. atestring

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    M R 2 opinions.
    :D

    I just looked up Baptize in Strong's Concordance Greek Dictionary and it says that BAPTIZE means to make whelmed (i.e. fully wet). Carrying the analogy to the Holy Spirit we are "covered over", "whelmed", or "fully wet" only once. We don't "dry out". Once Sealed Always Sealed, I always say. [​IMG]
    There were many Old Testament saints alive at the time of Jesus who weren't aware of what was going on in Jerusalem, when they found out they merely continued their faithfulness and were blessed with the gift of the Holy Spirit. Don't base your present belief in how the Lord works with how the Old Testament and New Testament transitioned. Practical knowledge on how to be a faithful follower of God in 100 BC was noticeably different than practical knowledge onhow to be a faithful follower of God in 100 AD. The general idea was the same (believe God), but what you believed was different in the details. Look at what was presented after the pivotal time of Pentecost to see what is the norm now. One Baptism of the Holy Spirit acknowledged by the symbol of water baptism. John the Baptist said that his baptism was only of water but the one coming after him would baptize with the Holy Spirit (no hint of multiple times).
    </font>[/QUOTE]So , if Peter had died the night before the Day of Pentecost would he have gone to heaven or would he have gone to Hell? Was he already baptized in the holy Spirit before Pentecost? Was he eternally damned before Pentecost?
     
  15. Dr. Bob

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    Ate - Many were saved without the experience of Pentecost. Means that what happened on Pentecost has NOTHING to do with salvation of that very unique group.

    But is that the example for us today to follow or was that a special event that happened once (to Jews) and once again (to Gentile believers) and then is never mentioned again in the Bible.

    Never. So we take a unique event to believers at these special times . . and try to make a "rule" for us today? That is just not good exegesis.
     
  16. Artimaeus

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    Why would he have gone to hell? He believed God, just as Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Daniel, and many others prior to the day of Pentecost. On that day a new thing began. For the first time, a person was eternally indwelt with the Holy Spirit. What better good news could we have hoped for. That is exciting. That is "comforting". That even makes me speak in tongues, "Hallelujah, Hosanna, and Yippie-yi-o" (that last one someone will have to interpret for me :D )
     
  17. atestring

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    Why would he have gone to hell? He believed God, just as Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Daniel, and many others prior to the day of Pentecost. On that day a new thing began. For the first time, a person was eternally indwelt with the Holy Spirit. What better good news could we have hoped for. That is exciting. That is "comforting". That even makes me speak in tongues, "Hallelujah, Hosanna, and Yippie-yi-o" (that last one someone will have to interpret for me :D ) </font>[/QUOTE]I am happy for you!
     

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