Is this blasphemous enough for you?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Amy.G, Sep 4, 2010.

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  1. Amy.G

    Amy.G
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    This statue is in The Saint Stanislaus Kostka Catholic church in Chicago.
    Part of the sanctuary.




    A Mother's Plea


    As a part of the unfolding miracle of The Divine Mercy at St. Stanislaus Kostka Parish, the Blessed Virgin Mary has requested that a sanctuary be built on the grounds between the church and the school.

    LINK


    Mary idolatry is alive and well.
     
  2. SolaSaint

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    I would say that pretty much silences those who deny that Catholics elevate Mary as divine.
     
  3. Jon-Marc

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    Well, they do call her the mother of God. So that elevates her above God does it not?
     
  4. Dr. Walter

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    Within any apostate theological system there will always be obvious contradictions if you simply look for them. You have found one. Here is another obvious contradiction in their Catechism. In one part of their catechism they teach that baptism conveys the grace of justification which in turn enables the baptized to be able to believe. Hence, (1) baptism; (2) grace; (3) justification; (4) ability to believe:

    1266 “The Most Holy Trinity gives the baptized sanctifying grace, the grace of justification:
    -enabling them to believe in God
    , to hope in Him, and to love him through the theological virtures;
    - giving them the power to live and act under the promptings of the Holy Spirit through the gifts of the Holy Spirit
    - allowing them to grow in goodness through moral virtues.
    Thus the whole organism of the Christians’ supernatural life has its roots in baptism
    . – Catechism of the Catholic Church

    Hence, through baptism is given the ability to believe, the power to live and the ability to grow so that "the whole organisms of the Christians' supernatural life has its roots in baptism." While in another part of their Catechism they demand that conversion (repentance and faith) precedes justification:

    1989 The first work of the grace of the Holy Spirit is conversion, effecting justification...... - Catechism of the Catholic Church

    While in another part of the catechism they have conversion (faith) preceding baptism:

    1253 ......The faith required for baptism is not a perfect and mature faith..."

    There is faith necessary to be baptized (1253) but baptism imparts the grace of justification in order to give the ability to believe (1266) but belief is required prior to the grace of justification (1989). So all bases are covered. Faith is demanded prior to baptism, but baptism provides the grace of justification in order to enable one to believe and yet faith must precede the grace of justification.

    This kind of mental gymnastics is characteristic of all false cultic Christian religions.
     
  5. Amy.G

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    Where are the Rome defenders? How do you defend this? The truth is you can't.

    For all your postulating that Catholics don't worship Mary, you have never faced the truth about this false and damnable, apostate church.
     
  6. Priscilla Ann

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    There is no defense for this. The Catholic view of Mary is one of the reasons I left the Catholic Church. Much of Catholic teaching about Mary cannnot be supported by scripture, and it is clearly wrong. Catholics will not admit this, of course -- primarily because they place their trust in the Catholic Church.
     
  7. billwald

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    Wasn't Mary the mother of Jesus?

    Isn't Jesus God?

    Don't you all "believe in" deductive logic"

    Thus Mary must be the mother of God.
     
  8. SBCPreacher

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    Bill, do you think we're supposed to worship Mary since she was the mother of Jesus?
     
  9. Dr. Walter

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    Mary was the mother of the HUMAN Jesus as there was no "Jesus" previous to the incarnation but there was The eternal Word. The eternal Word tabernacled in flesh but was not flesh.
     
  10. Zenas

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    I didn’t notice anything blasphemous in either of the links you posted. The first one appears to be the sanctuary in a Catholic church with the altar in the foreground. In the background is the tabernacle, made to resemble the ark of the covenant. Behind the tabernacle stands an image of the Virgin Mary with her hands outstretched as she is portrayed in the majority of her images. The portrayal of her immaculate heart is also fairly common. The most unusual aspect of this portrayal is that Mary is shown in her red tunic, without her traditional blue outer garment. Most depictions of Mary will show her dressed in blue, with only a small portion of the red tunic visible beneath it. Perhaps they chose to put Mary there to identify her with the ark of the covenant, a concept that is solidly grounded in scripture.

    She is not, however, a goddess nor is she the object of worship. When people come and kneel before this sanctuary, they are not kneeling in honor or Mary. Rather, they kneel before the tabernacle which they believe contains the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ in the form of the blessed sacrament. Catholics do in fact worship and adore the blessed sacrament, a topic that has been discussed recently on this forum.

    The material in the second link is about the plans of the parish to erect a sanctuary in downtown Chicago near the Kennedy Expressway. True to church tradition, the role of Mary is to point people toward God. For example, “Our Lady, the tabernacle that so long ago concealed the Holy of Holies, continues her apostolic mission to make Jesus known, loved and served and to gently and tenderly, gracefully and mercifully remind a wandering people that they, too, are known, loved and served by a living God.”

    Now the part that Amy quoted, “[T]he Blessed Virgin Mary has requested that a sanctuary be built . . .” is somewhat bizarre. While I believe the evidence is strong for Marian apparitions, there is no mention of an apparition in the material published by the parish. So one is left to wonder just how she made the request. However it is no more bizarre than what I often hear from evangelists, both on and off television, that God has told them to raise a lot of money, or God has told them to build a church, or whatever.
     
    #10 Zenas, Sep 4, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 4, 2010
  11. annsni

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    Wait - is that Mary sitting on the Mercy Seat?????????????
     
  12. Dr. Walter

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    May I ask where in Scripture is Mary identified with "the ark of the covenant"?


    I have found that Rome speaks out of both sides of her mouth. Words have little meaning - it is the doctrine and actions that tell the real story. She is given attributes and titles equal to God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

    501....her spiritual motherhood extends to all men whom indeed he came to save.

    Hence her "spiritual motherhood" is equal to the First Person's "fatherhood" as He is Father to all men who shall be saved as they are "children of God" because they are born from above and cry "abba Father."

    966....as Queen OVER ALL THINGS..."

    969....Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this SAVING OFFICE but by her manifold intercession continue to bring us tthe gifts of eternal salvation....Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benfactress, and Mediatrix."

    She co-shares the titles given to The Holy Spirit and to Christ separate from all other beings.

    971 ...The Church's devotion to the Blessed Virgin is INTRINSIC to CHRISTIAN WORSHIP........From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title "Mother of God,' to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs.....

    Out of one side of Rome's mouth they deny she is to be worshipped but out of the other side of their mouth they claim that devotion to her is "INTRINSIC TO CHRISTIAN WORSHIP." They emphasize this in the same paragraph by not only asserting the title "Mother of God" but uniting that title to omnipotent power and omnscience to protext all who "fly" to her in "ALL" their dangers and needs.

    You call it want you want. However, to any objective person reading this material without bias, and mental gynastics to twist it so that it flows from both sides of your mouth this is nothing but pure idolatry and violation of the second commandment. Just reading the Catholic Catechism on Mary is sufficient to charge Rome with blasphemey and idolatry.
     
    #12 Dr. Walter, Sep 4, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 4, 2010
  13. billwald

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    >Bill, do you think we're supposed to worship Mary since she was the mother of Jesus?

    No. But shouldn't George Washington's mother get a little credit for his success?
     
  14. annsni

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    Certainly not altars and prayers.
     
  15. Zenas

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    PARALLEL PASSAGES THAT PORTRAY THE ARK OF THE COVENANT AS AN OLD TESTAMENT TYPE OF THE VIRGIN MARY

    Just as the glory of the Lord overshadowed the ark in the tabernacle, the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary.
    THE ARK: “Then a cloud covered the tent of the congregation, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.” Exodus 40:34.

    MARY: “And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee.” Luke 1:35.

    * * * * *

    In his narrative of the Visitation, Luke borrows heavily from references to the ark in 2 Samuel 6.
    THE ARK: When trying to bring the ark up to the city, David said, "How can the ark of the Lord come to me?" 2 Samuel 6:9.

    MARY: When Elizabeth greeted Mary she said, “[W]hence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?” Luke 1:43.

    * * * * *

    THE ARK: “[T]he ark of the LORD continued in the house of Obededom the Gittite three months.” 2 Samuel 6:11.

    MARY: “And Mary abode with her [Elizabeth] about three months.” Luke 1:56.

    * * * * *

    THE ARK: David was leaping before the ark as it was brought into the city. 2 Samuel 6:16.

    MARY: At the sound of Mary’s voice, John leaped for joy in Elizabeth’s womb. Luke 1:44.

    * * * * *

    The contents of the ark are all symbolic of Jesus, who was conceived in the womb of Mary.
    THE ARK CONTAINED (1) a golden jar holding the manna (bread), (2) Aaron's rod which budded (the priesthood) and (3) the tables of the covenant (the word of God) Hebrews 9:4.

    OUR LORD, CONCEIVED IN THE WOMB OF MARY is to us (1) the Bread of Life, John 6:48; our High Priest, Hebrews 5:10; and the eternal Word, John 1:1

    * * * * *.

    Finally, in the book of Revelation we see the ark of the covenant, whose whereabouts has been unknown since the time of Jeremiah. Next we see the majestic woman with a crown of twelve stars giving birth to a child who would rule the nations. We don’t tend to read these verses together because of a chapter division but when they were written, there was no division. There is definitely a nexus between the ark and the woman (Mary) who gives birth to the child (Jesus).

    “And the temple of God which is in heaven was opened; and the ark of His covenant appeared in His temple, and there were flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder and an earthquake and a great hailstorm. And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars.” Revelation 11:19-12:1.
     
  16. annsni

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    Good heavens!! What a stretch!!! It's the same kind of stretch I've been seeing in Harold Camping finding out when the end of the world comes!!! Seriously?
     
  17. Amy.G

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    Yes. Or maybe she's behind it, but she is certainly between the cherubim. Only God's presence was between the cherubim.

    Exodus 25:20-22 And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be. And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee. And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.


    Only the high priest was allowed into the Holy of Holies where the ark rested and only once a year. Mary was not a high priest and she certainly was not God.
     
  18. Amy.G

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    The woman in Rev. 12:1 is not Mary. The crown of 12 stars certainly refers to Israel (12 tribes, 12 apostles). Israel gave birth to the Messiah.

    As for the rest of your post, I'm sure Catholics are taught and believe those things, but they have ripped scripture totally out of context and put them together to form a false doctrine; something cults are famous for.

    (I have no animosity toward any Catholic "person". I have Catholic family members. It is the heretical doctrines the "church" teaches that I find disgusting.)
     
  19. Zenas

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    Do you think Luke coming up with the same phraseology in connection with Mary that 2 Samuel used in connection with the ark was mere serendipity?

    Do you think it is mere coincidence that John wrote that verse about the ark immediately before he wrote about the glorious woman in heaven?

    The problem with evangelicals in their approach to Mary is that they so much want to put distance between themselves and Catholicism that they will reject the obvious sometimes just because it is Maryology. It wasn't so with the early Protestants, all of whom held Mary in high esteem.
     
  20. annsni

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    Well, it's already been shown that the woman in Revelation is not Mary.

    As for coincidence between what John wrote and the Ark - what about it? The ark didn't carry or contain God's presence. But it was a place where God's presence would rest. Would you say the same about Jesus?
     
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