Is this former lesbian right, or wrong ?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by pinoybaptist, Feb 3, 2014.

  1. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
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    So this afternoon I turned on the radio and happened on a discussion in one of the stations here in the Bay Area. I think the title of the show was Bottom Line.
    Admittedly, I tuned in a little late on the discussion and so did not get the whole gist of it, but it seems there is this lesbian who "became" a "Christian" while in a lesbian marriage thru the ministry of a Mennonite preacher.
    Now, before her conversion, while 'married' to another woman, they adopted a child whom they raised together back in the early 2000's and since she is now a "Christian" she was concerned about the child being raised in an unconventional home so they went through a custody hearing and custody of the child was granted to the other "spouse", not her. (this is getting to be ridiculous, calling people of the same sex 'spouses'. can't get used to it).
    So, it seems she consulted her pastor who advised her to go to Canada with the child (kidnapping, right there) and from there fly over to Nicaragua and raise the child there.
    She did exactly that.
    Suits flew left and right and end result is that now she is a fugitive, and the pastor is facing at the very least three years in jail for aiding and abetting a fugitive.
    He says that's fine with him because he is willing to lay down his life for the sheep, like Christ laid His for His sheep.
    Callers for the most part approved of the action of both the flight and the "sacrifice" of the pastor.
    Otrhers, of course, did not.
    I do not.
    First of all, the child was adopted by BOTH of them, while they were supposedly legally married, and just because she says she is now a Christian doesn't negate that unscriptural but legal union.
    Now, when I tuned in the host was saying something along the line of scripture where "if the unbelieving depart......." but why the heck should scripture be used on a very unscriptural situation.
    I think her pastor gave her wrong advice.
    To me, it's like wanting to have her cake, and eat it, too.
    What do y'all think ?
     
  2. annsni

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    I think she needed to abide by the law and continue visitation with her child while still seeking full custody. Leaving the country was wrong and counseling one to break the law is quite a sticky place to be!
     
  3. rivers1222

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    I would have liked to have heard a whole podcast of the program, but I get the jist. First things first. What is in the best interest of the child. I seriously have to question this pastors judgement, telling her to take the child, cross several international borders, become a felon, to raise your child in Nicaragua? Im assuming she has family there, (broad assumption), but isnt that where many loving parents are trying to get their kids out of and across the Tex-Mex border to have some chance at a life?
    Gotta be more to the story.
     
  4. convicted1

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    If I was a pastor and was confronted with this, I would never tell her to break the law and flee. We are to obey the law...
     
  5. pinoybaptist

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    whew !!
    and here I thought I was being unreasonable not agreeing with the pastor.
    yeah, the law is the law, unscriptural as it may be.
    I would have counselled her to leave the matter to God's hands and to God's wisdom.
    Adopting the child had been a ridiculous decision by the two of them which they made in wanting to be 'normal' just like everybody else.
    Now that she has left that lifestyle, everything needs to be left behind, including the child.
    She needs to set her walk with her God in order, and kidnapping is definitely not 'in order'.
     
  6. Aaron

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    It's hard to fault her. Her only goal was the protection of the child. Solomon granted custody to the harlot whose motives were the protection of the child.

    But after some thought, I think I would have advised her to continue to pursue recourse through the courts, and I would have organized to help her with the costs. I think the other woman wanted custody much in the same way the one harlot desired the child's death, that was just to get at the other woman. In time, the other lezbo would have grown tired of the child, especially when it came between her and the lovers she desired.
     
  7. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Curious, why Nicaragua of all places...perhaps a country with no extradition Im thinking.
     
  8. HAMel

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    Lawyers are expensive. Perhaps she simply didn't have the money to fight. Leaving the country however was foolish thing to do, for sure.

    Sometimes it's best to just let the chips fall where they fall and walk away. I do believe that if something is wrong it's worth fighting against and if it's right it's worth fighting for. At the same time one has to choose their fights.

    As Bob Jones often said, "It is never right to do wrong in order to get a chance to do right." This relationship was wrong to begin with so doing what she thought was right......
     
  9. Judith

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    For those who are disagreeing with the pastor and woman let me pose a scenario and question to open this up a little.

    If you had a biological child (not adopted) and lived in a country where the child was taken from you by the state, because of your religion, to be raised by the state as an atheist do you think it would be wrong to kidnap the child and flee? Do you think it would be wrong for a pastor to counsel to do so and help? The child is not in any immediate or physical harm but only spiritual harm. What would you do?

    While we are to be law abiding people there comes a time when we have to go against the law. This case with the woman may very well be one of them. While I would like to know more about this case to be more clear based on what is stated I can find no moral wrong done either by the Pastor or woman. In other words I do not believe the Lord would call this sin. I would remind EVERYONE that the time is fast approaching in this country when Christians will find the need to go against the government and laws.
     
  10. Zaac

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    Sounds like apples and oranges as the first situation was agreed upon. Your situation would have been forced upon.

    I disagree . She made the choice to live as a lesbian in a lesbian relationship. The consequences of her wrong choices fell upon the child. The consequences often affect those who had nothing to do with our sin. She should have just dealt with it just as many divorced men and women have to deal with how they are going to raise their kids when the other custodial parent isn't a Christian.

    She's wrong because she helped create this situation and does not get to break the law to fix the situation. That is a sin. Unless there is some physically, life threatening issue, it was crazy for her to do what she did.

    There are times when, because we helped create the situation, we just have to suck it up and faithfully remember to let God be sovereign.

    Her actions are a sign that she trusts a man more than she trusts God. Another sin.
     
  11. JohnDeereFan

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    She was wrong and should face federal kidnapping charges.
     
  12. Jerome

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    Wow so much wrong info in the OP.

    Actual case summarized here:

    Miller v. Jenkins
     
  13. convicted1

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    Correct. If we openly violate the law as CHRISTians, what example are we bringing forth to the lost?
     
  14. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    If there was no extradition, U.S. Marshalls could not have pursued them there. I believe it was because the Mennonite pastor had served as a missionary there and knew people who were willing to hide the mother and the girl.

    All that said, and having reviewed a couple Virginia Court of Appeals decisions in the case (and not being a lawyer), I believe the courts in Virginia have erred grossly in not citing the formerly in effect DOMA in awarding custody to Lisa. DOMA became the law of the land in 1996 and wasn't declared unconstitutional until last June. All the decisions in the case came down well before then.
     
    #14 thisnumbersdisconnected, Feb 4, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 4, 2014
  15. Jon-Marc

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    Of course, we all agree (or should) that a sexual relationship between 2 males or 2 females (resulting in a "marriage" or not) is immoral and condemned by God. Just because someone allegedly becomes a Christian, that doesn't make it real. The "Christian" is not displaying a Christian attitude by kidnapping the child and running off to a foreign country.

    The pastor is definitely in the wrong by telling her to kidnap the child and move to another country. We have a case of "Two wrongs do not make a right." In speech, 2 negatives actually do make a positive, but it doesn't work that way in life.
     
  16. Yeshua1

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    Agree with you, for if the child was not being harmed by who was in custody...

    Begs the question though, as to what if there was danger to child though?
     
  17. pinoybaptist

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    thank you, Jerome.
    like I said, I tuned in late.
    as to the others on the board, herein are what wiki says are the facts.
    my apologies if I set you off on a discussion on incomplete thus erroneous info.
     
  18. SaggyWoman

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    It is always the children who get hurt.
     

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