Is this statement theologically correct

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by xdisciplex, May 25, 2006.

  1. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,766
    Likes Received:
    0
    "God's wrath was satisfied by Jesus' death and suffering."

    Does this mean that since Jesus died God's wrath is quenched and he's up there kind of sedated? :confused:
     
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    The Greek pagan principle of "propitiation" is that the "mean old angry deity is appeased by the blood or food sacrifice offerred".

    By "contrast" the HEBREW idea of "ATONEMENT" is of the form "GOD so LOVED THAT HE gave HIS Son FOR US...".

    In other words it is the OPPOSITE of "God got the joy of tormenting a sacrificial soul until He felt pretty good about us once again".

    God "WAS IN Christ" reconciling the world TO HIMSELF 2Cor 5.

    I may have given you a link to a book that helps keep the focus fully on the sacrifice of Christ for us as an expression of "ATONEMENT" not "appeasement".

    The statement you have above is in the form of "appeasement".

    IN Christ,

    Bob
     
  3. whatever

    whatever
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    2,088
    Likes Received:
    0
    First, it's an incomplete statement; it is true for all who believe. Second, it doesn't mean that God is "sedated" or whatever. As John 3:36 says, "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."
     
  4. Mary Diana Lynn Harper

    Mary Diana Lynn Harper
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2006
    Messages:
    90
    Likes Received:
    0
    Maybe you need to think about it this way. Would you be satisfied if someone killed your son? I don't think that Gods' wrath was quenched, otherwise we could do as the profits of old did, Go directly to God with our problems. This is why you go to Jesus, For all who ask Jesus to come into their heart and ask for forgiveness, He forgives. there is no other way to get to God except through Jesus. If they went through Jesus, God accepts them into His arms. AMEN
     
  5. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,766
    Likes Received:
    0
    But God released his anger which he had on our sins on Jesus, right? Does this mean that God was angry at Jesus in this moment? Or how did this work? Did God time this and in the right moment, when Jesus was on the cross he got all his anger together and then released it on Jesus and afterwards he wasn't angry anymore? But he can still get angry today. This means that his anger isn't simply gone. Somehow this isn't so easy to understand. If Jesus bore the wrath of God then why is God still angry today? In revelation the wrath of God is mentioned a few times.
     
  6. Mary Diana Lynn Harper

    Mary Diana Lynn Harper
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2006
    Messages:
    90
    Likes Received:
    0
    I believe God is angry at himself because He created us in His image. We dissapointed Him because we are not like Him while we are here in the flesh. Does that make since?
     
  7. Marcia

    Marcia
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    0
    GOd was not angry at Jesus; he was pouring out his wrath on man's sins. Jesus didn't have any sins but took on the sins. This was all prefigured with the OT sacrifices where the animals represented the sins of the people.

    God always has wrath on sin; at the same time, he is merciful, longsuffering, compassionate, righteous, omniscient, etc. God's attributes are all evenly balanced in his nature - he does not change as man does.

    xdisciplex,I notice that you start a lot of threads. I think you need to do some studying of the Bible and you would discover a few things and not have to ask so many questions. Why do you ask all this stuff? Why don't you get in a bible study or something?
     
  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    God (the Father) was not angry at Jesus (God the Son) or at Himself. God "was IN Christ reconciling the World to Himself" 2Cor 5

    The Atonement model has God "giving of HIMSELF" to save mankind. The Atonement model is not "God appeased" it is "God tormented, God sacrificed, God glorified, God suffering in man's place".

    God "Loves God with all His heart" that means the Father Loves God the Son "with all His heart" - He did not hate Christ nor was He "angry at Christ".

    But Christ felt the Justice of God and the wrath of God "against sin" -- the same thing each sinner will feel in the "2nd death" lake of fire - mentioned in Rev 20.

    "Some groups" teach that the cross had not "second death - substitutionary payment" to it -- rather it is just "the passion" the earthly and human injustice suffered by Christ. When they do that -- they make "sinful man" the one who "measures out the payment owed". I see that as an error.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  9. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,766
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have none, I also don't think they could answer all my questions. I simply have many questions. When I thin about things I get questions.

    Not really. I think God was rather angry at the sins of mankind.

    Yes.But we have this separation which I think is confusing because God is sitting on the throne and Jesus is the one who suffers and pays the price and this looks as if God is sitting there and Jesus has to do all the hard work. Somehow one could think that God (The Father) let Jesus experience all the pain and he himself was up there and didn't have to suffer. This is the impression you could get from it. :confused:
    Why didn't the Father for example come down to earth and die for us? Why did Jesus have to do this part? Because he's the son and beyond the Father in the hierarchy?
     
  10. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    God the Father suffered with Christ as a Father would be in anguish and suffering watching His only Son being tormented.

    But at the same time it is GOD who "measures out the cup" that Christ must drink to fully satisify "the debt owed" according to the Law - thus upholding the claims of the LAW of God - upholding the penalty demanded in the LAW. The LAW of God that governs the universe - remains in tact WHILE saving mankind. HE is "JUST and the JUSTIFIER" of those that diligently seek Him.

    God must always be BOTH "Perfectly Just" AND "Perfectly merciful".

    At the Cross - Justice AND mercy have kissed.

    As we learn in John 1:1 - Christ's role - His "function" in the Trinity is to "REVEAL" infinite God in finite terms. He is "The WORD".

    "We BEHELD Him full of grace and truth" - He is "God WITH US". Jesus said to Philip who said "SHOW us the Father" -- "HAVE I been so long with you and yet you have not known Me?".

    His "purpose" is to reveal - to show - God!

    God the Father's role is to represent the Authority and ruling attributes of the Trinity.

    Both the Father and the Son - function in a way that perfectly illustrates each attribute of the Trinity. Christ therefore was the only one that HAD the role of coming and representing God to man.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  11. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think God had to forsake His son for a short period of time in order for Him to die or else why would Jesus say "Father why hath thou forsaken me". I doubt if Jesus could of died if God had not forsaken Him. I also believe Heaven was disturbed when Jesus died for that was when the souls recieved their white robes that were under the altar.
     
  12. Marcia

    Marcia
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    0
    xdisciplex, if you want answers, you have to put in the study. You can buy study books yourself. You mainly need to take time to read the Bible - maybe get a good study bible would help you. You can't rely on answers here as they come from many sources. This is not the way to get all these questions answered.
     
  13. Phil310

    Phil310
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2003
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    0
    He is the propiation of not only us but that of the whole world.

    I qualify this quoted Scripture by saying that Christ's atoning sacrifice is sufficient for everyone but only effective to only those who believe and receive.
     
  14. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    Marcia;
    He can listen to me. [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  15. D28guy

    D28guy
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2002
    Messages:
    2,713
    Likes Received:
    0
    same

    xdisciplex,

    Not sedated.

    Satisfied.

    Sin absolutly must be punished. Gods justice must be meted out. The scriptures tell us that the

    That death sentance must be administered. That means that we are all doomed of course.

    But the rest of that verse says...

    Jesus became one of us so that He could, in effect, say...

    "Father. I'll take it. Mike deserves it, but I will take it for him"

    All of our sins were placed upon Jesus Christ 2000 years ago. Gods justice was satisfied. Our sins demand that the death sentance be administered, and it was...but Christ took it in our place.

    He then rose from the dead 3 days later and offers new life to the "whosoeverwills", who embrace Him through faith alone.

    To all you embrace Him He literally indwells them, and "seals" them into His body through the indwelling Holy Spirit.

    Its a beautiful thing that God has done for us, and we can never thank Him and praise Him enought for it.

    God bless,

    Mike
     

Share This Page

Loading...