Is tithing part of the law?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Boanerges, Jan 6, 2005.

  1. Boanerges

    Boanerges
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2005
    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    0
    I just got finished reading this multi part article about tithing and it's Biblical applications. It is a lot to take in, but I have always had questions about the practices of the televangelists and their methods, and this article addressed some of this.

    http://www.seekgod.ca/tithing.htm

    Does anyone here have an opinion?
     
  2. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    I moved this to the proper forum for a good discussion. Anything that exposes televangelists is good for us all!
     
  3. Daniel David

    Daniel David
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Messages:
    5,316
    Likes Received:
    0
    Tithing is middle class America's way of robbing God.

    Tithing was a command under the old covenant. Thankfully, we are not under any of the old covenant.`
     
  4. JGrubbs

    JGrubbs
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2004
    Messages:
    4,761
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree with Daniel David on this! The religious leaders in Jesus' day were proud that they were tithing, Jesus scorned them because that was all they did. Many churches today teach that as long as you give your 10% you will recieve God's blessing and that is all you have to do. Jesus says that he wants us to die to ourselves and give him 100% of who we are. The only requirement for giving in the New Testament is to give what you can give in worship with a cheerfull heart.
     
  5. Gregory Perry Sr.

    Gregory Perry Sr.
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2004
    Messages:
    1,993
    Likes Received:
    0
    :eek: ;) I just read through that website!Good link....but be aware....it blows most of what we've all heard preached and taught about "tithing" in todays age of the church and grace right out of the water.IF you are a tither and beleive that is the right way for todays church....fasten your seatbelt.You won't see or hear this taught in the average Baptist church today.

    Greg Sr. [​IMG]
     
  6. Ben W

    Ben W
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2002
    Messages:
    8,868
    Likes Received:
    0
    It is a refreshing thing to see more and more churches realising that teaching tithing to the congregation is teaching False Doctrine. How much should you give? Should the question really be "How much should I keep"?
     
  7. ktn4eg

    ktn4eg
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2004
    Messages:
    3,517
    Likes Received:
    1
    A truly serious question:

    Should Christians claim as a deduction on their income tax what they give (tithe, donate, whatever you wish to call it) as a "charitable donation"?

    Please supply any SPECIFIC scripture(s) that you see as applying to your reason(s) either pro or con.

    I guess what I'm really asking (and, PLEASE, do NOT consider this as a criticism if this is your conviction because it ISN'T!) is this:

    Is it ethically consistent for those who believe that one should give freely from the heart to whatever work of the Lord he believes he's being led by God to give, and not from some LEGALLY BINDING view (i.e., the tithe) to keep records of their giving so that they can possibly reduce their tax liability?
     
  8. richard n koustas

    richard n koustas
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2004
    Messages:
    443
    Likes Received:
    0
    everything i've learned about tithing i learned from the bible...it means one tenth; it is an OT principle (law); it has absolutely no application to the NT church. then i started going to a church that preaches that i should tithe. i cannot find any biblical justification for 'tithing' in the NT church. if we were to look at all the different types of offerings in the law, the 'free will' offering is the probably the closest thing we have to what is 'preached' in the nt.
     
  9. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    Why wouldn't they? There is nothing wrong with that at all, provided you are doing it legally. If the tax deduction is the only reason you give, then there is something wrong. But to take advantage of something like that is not wrong in the least. In fact, to not take advantage of it would be bad stewardship of the resources God has given you.
     
  10. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2002
    Messages:
    3,461
    Likes Received:
    45
    The first time the word ‘tithe” is mentioned in the Bible is after Lot and his family were taken from the city of Sodom, and Abraham went and conquered those who had taken them away and brought them back.

    Genesis 14:17 And the king of Sodom went out to meet him after his return from the slaughter of Chedorlaomer, and of the kings that were with him, at the valley of Shaveh, which is the king's dale.
    18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.
    19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:
    20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.


    Whose is this Melchizedek? Hebrews 7:3 describes Melchizedek.
    Heb 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

    How many people can you think of described like this? I believe Melchizedek is a pre-incarnate appearance of Jesus Christ. But even if you don’t believe he was Jesus Christ, the principle is still established because the Bible says, “…[he] is made like unto the Son of God.” When Abraham gave to Melchizedek, in the first mention of the tithe, I believe he was giving it to Jesus.

    Every time you or I give our tithes and offerings, we ought to look beyond the church. We ought to look beyond the offering plate and in our heart and in our mind we ought to picture giving it to the Lord Jesus Christ. Don’t ever let yourself fall into the trap of saying, “Well, I’m just dropping it in the offering plate.” No, it is much more than that. You are literally giving your tithe and offerings to the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.

    Now, to the question "Is tithing part of the law?" Many already have said "Yes, it is only Old Testament law. I disagree because this situation with Abraham occurred before the law. The law wouldn’t be given for several hundred years yet. When Jacob got right with God in Genesis 28, he immediately made a vow to bring a tenth of everything God gave him. This, too, was before the law.
    Gen 28:20 And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on,
    21 So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the LORD be my God:
    22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.


    Tithing is a law of God, written not just in the law He gave to Moses, it’s written in your heart and in your conscience. Abraham, before there was any command, knew he was supposed to tithe. Jacob knew he was supposed to tithe.

    For those who disagree, tell me why Abraham and Jacob knew they were to tithe before the law was given.
     
  11. Boanerges

    Boanerges
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2005
    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    0
    Pastor_Bob posted:

    Tithing is a law of God, written not just in the law He gave to Moses, it's written in your heart and in your conscience. Abraham, before there was any command, knew he was supposed to tithe. Jacob knew he was supposed to tithe.

    Boanerges response:

    This is a sticky area. Abraham did not give ten percent on a regular basis, and his ten percent was the spoils of war as the article stated. Also, the Jewish people follow a book called the Talmud, which is a commentary on the Old Testament, especially the five books that Moses wrote. They profess that it was all oral law given at Sinai before it was written down, so they have the stuff recorded that the Bible missed. They hold this commentary (the talmud) up to be equal with the Bible. We have to be careful with what we feel and think, versus what is actually written in God's word..
     
  12. izzaksdad

    izzaksdad
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2004
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    0
    Finally! Someone that has some good, sound, theolgical sense in here! Well said Dr. Bob. Tithing was in place 430 years before the law (hence Bob's post), during the law, and after the law for the NT church. A person that is serious about their walk with God and their relationship with the Savior will take his giving serious. Those who hold to the view that tithing does not have any bearing in the NC, are grossly misinterpreting and misapplying the ENTIRETY of Scripture. Do not overlook the principle of tithing and the principle of fisrt fruit that is taught throughout Scripture. It all comes down to obedience and Lordship.

    1. OUR GIVING IS IMPORTANT TO THE LORD- He has a plan for systematic giving to Him- the tithe- thru the local church.

    2. OUR SACRIFICE IN GIVING IS IMPORTANT TO THE LORD- He put us ALL on the same playing field when it came to giving- the tithe,10%.

    3. OUR ATTITUDE IN GIVING IS IMPORTANT TO THE LORD- It should be our desrire and our delight to obey God with the tithe and honor Him with our offering.

    "When a man says,'It ain't about the money,it is the principle of the thing', it's about the money."- Someone said it- not sure who.

    Folk, the bottom line is that the tithe is required and the tithe is deserved. It is all a matter of obedience and stewardship.
     
  13. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    It was customary to give tithes to people who were great. In fact, the very point of Hebrews is that the Levites received tithe because of the Law, and taht was different than Mel. Therefore, we should understand that Mel received tithes based on who he was, his own greatness, not based on the Law.

    I do not believe Mel was a pre incarnate Christ. I think he was a historical figure about whom not much was recorded.
     
  14. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2002
    Messages:
    3,461
    Likes Received:
    45
    Thank you for your thoughts brother, but be careful izzaksdad, you ascribed my thoughts to Dr. Bob. Although my friend the good Dr. and I agree on a few points, I doubt that this is one of them.
     
  15. rjprince

    rjprince
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    1,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    The tithe paid to Mel was voluntary and never repeated. As noted, it was only of the "spoils" from this military victory, never commanded and never repeated.

    To argue for the tithe on the basis of this mention before the Law is equivalent to arguing for the a perpetual sabbath observance for the same reason!

    Further, there is no command anywhere post-cross to tithe (or keep the sabbath). Anyone who I have ever heard argue that Believers should tithe uses Mal 3:8 which is definitely link to the Law and to Israel.

    Paul teaches that giving should be regular, proportional, and sacrificial, NOT a TITHE!
     
  16. izzaksdad

    izzaksdad
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2004
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    0
    I apologize to Pastor Bob and Dr. Bob for the mistake! In my zeal to reply, I overlooked the obvious difference (no picture!)Pastor Bob. Dr. Bob is quite dapper in that pose. I don't know how I missed it [​IMG]

    I-dad
     
  17. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    Izaaksdad ... I can't help but notice you didn't provide any Scripture in support of your points. Is there a reason?

    Remember, the tithe given to Melchizedek had nothing to do with law. There is not one verse of Scripture to support the idea that it was. Furthermore, as I pointed out, the only place where it is actually talked about, the direct contrast is drawn between the levitical priests who received tithes by law, and Melchizedek who did not. That shows that your point that tithing predated the law is incorrect.

    Second, the OT required tithe was not 10%. It was 20% a year, and 30% every third year, for an average of 23% a year. How often do you hear that preached?

    Third, most people get off too cheaply with a tithe. The NT teaches that giving is to be proporitional (1 Cor 16:2 - as he may prosper). A good rule of thumb is that if you have the same standard of living as an unbeliever with the same salary, you are not giving enough. Why should you only give 10%? Why not 20% or 50%? The Bible teaches you should give as your prosper.

    You are right that the attitude is important and that giving should be done through the local church.
     
  18. rjprince

    rjprince
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    1,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just a side note, many of those who argue for tithing also argue that the Lord's day should be observed in manner like the OT Sabbath. Don't work on Sunday and all that...
     
  19. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2002
    Messages:
    3,461
    Likes Received:
    45
    People mistakenly think that tithing has to do with money; it doesn’t have to do with money. God owns the cattle on a thousand hills. He owns the hills and all the gold in the hills. He tells us in Psalms 50 that He owns everything and if He needed anything He wouldn’t tell us.
    Ps 50:10 For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.
    11 I know all the fowls of the mountains: and the wild beasts of the field are mine.
    12 If I were hungry, I would not tell thee: for the world is mine, and the fulness thereof.


    God doesn’t need anything. He doesn’t need our money. He wants our obedience and our love. When the offering plate goes by you, you need to rejoice at the opportunity to express your love and obedience to God.

    Many Christians are not in the practice of obeying God, that is why we preach on the tithe. Tithing demonstrates our obedience; offerings demonstrate our love.

    An Evangelist tells the story of working on a train with an engineer that he became burdened for. One day at lunch, the Evangelist asked the engineer what he thought of Jesus. The engineer replied, "I’m afraid I don’t think too much of Him." "Why," asked the Evangelist? "You see," the engineer said, "My wife is a member of the same church as you. We are well off. We own our house, our cars are paid for, we have everything we need or want. Every two weeks I sign my check over to my wife and she knows that she can do whatever she wants with the money. She can spend it on herself, on me, or anything. She also knows that she can give whatever she wants to her church with any objection from me. I happen to know that each week she drops one dime in the offering plate."

    The engineer held up a bag of biscuits. "This bag of biscuits costs me 10 cents. I figure that if Jesus is not worth more than a 10-cent bag of biscuits, I can well enough do without Him."

    So many times, the world’s opinion of Jesus is often our opinion of Jesus. If my opinion of Jesus is not that He is worthy of at least my tithe, what does that say about my opinion of who Jesus is?
     
  20. Daniel David

    Daniel David
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Messages:
    5,316
    Likes Received:
    0
    Bob, there is no reason that Abraham tithed off his own income. In fact, he tithed off the spoils of war to Mel. Btw, I agree with you on who he was.

    Jacob made a vow to give 10%. It doesn't mean he was required to. He just said he would.

    As Larry pointed out, the tithe was actually threefold.

    There is no command to tithe pre-law and post-law. I think that speaks volumes.
     

Share This Page

Loading...