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Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by pastorchanon, Mar 27, 2006.
The correctness or incorrectness of using another's sermon.
I didn't vote because I don't think a "yes" or "no" is enough of an answer. Using what God has taught you through ANY means is a valid way of gaining inspiration for a sermon or lesson.
If a preacher is going to memorize another man's sermon and then repeat it verbatim, I feel that he is obligated to let his listeners know that that is the case. He ought not present another man's study as his own studying.
Ive heard many preachers take what they learned from another sermon and pass it on to their church family. I don't find anything wrong with this.
Other than that, no sermon is that man's original ideas anyway, so how could a preacher be "stealing" another man's original idea (plagiarism defined) when the original idea is God's and is offered freely to all believers?
Agreed...Nothing wrong with useing sermons in the same way as commentaries...I like what Adrian Rogers used to say..."You can use my bullets, just use your own gun powder"
Grace and Peace
Before I can vote, I need to know what you mean. Do you mean taking the entire sermon and using it as if it is your own? Do you mean using a story or a point from a sermon and giving credit to the person? Clarify a little if you would.
If anyone ever uses anything I've ever done, they should always preface it by saying, "A wise guy once said..."
The general definition of plagiarism is not just using a person's words without attributing, but even using their train of thought without attributing. So a pastor who stands up and delivers verbatim someone else's sermon and does not say that it was first delivered by so and so is plagiarizing. So is a pastor who takes someone else's sermon outline and delivers it without making any significant modifications to the train of thought or conclusion (meaning reaching a different conclusion, not just rephrasing the original presenter's concluding paragraph).
This is significant because I understand there are various web sites where a person can download sermon outlines. A pastor who presents these outlines may be plagiarizing.
It's quite possible someone might be led to offer a sermon put together by someone else, but if they do so they ought to let the congregation know the original source.
The poll question was, "Is using another's sermon plagarism and therefore a lack of Holy Spirit Guidence?" I disagree slightly with the wording but I went ahead and said Yes because my impression is that pastors who use someone else's sermon don't typically say who first preached it. If they cite the source it may be ok.
Lets see. When I was a boy if the teacher caught you copying off another boy's paper they called that cheating.
Yet somehow today it is up for discussion whether or not a pastor should or shouldnt preach another man's sermon verbatim?
I know I may be a dumb hillbilly from the mountains of NC. but I would call that cheating.
I would call the big named pastors that sell their sermons on-line partners in the crime. They are providing a avenue for pastors to take the easy way out and making a profit on top of that.
Oh, unless they are using the profits to go towards some other ministry. I guess that rationalizes it into being okay? Yeah right?
Explain to me why you have to provide footnotes, bibliographies etc... when writing a paper but a preacher can copy another man's message and never tell his congregation? What pray tell is the difference?
When I was growing up our pastor preached a message called "Standing in Your Peapatch". Man he preached that sermon at our church he preached it at other area churches. It became one of our church's favorite sermons from our preacher.
Well several years later I was at SEBTS and the church I was attending had Dr. Bailey Smith in for a revival.
Why he preached "Standing in your Peapatch" too?
Come to find out Dr. Smith is the one who first penned that sermon not my pastor.
It was bad enough that he preached another man's sermon almost verbatim and didn't give Smith credit. What was even more disgusting is how he let us all gloat over that sermon and how wonderful it was etc... and he never, ever told us it wasn't his.
Now what would have been wrong with saying to folk. "Now this is Dr. Bailey Smith's message. It has been tremendously used by God. I would like to share it with you folk and trust it will be a blessing to your heart."
He suckered us.He made us think that that was his sermon. I'm telling you I never trusted that man after that and it is a good thing because he was more about making a name for himself than anything else.
It is wrong as rain to copy and preach another man's sermon without giving credit to the orginal author of the message. It shouldn't even be up for debate. The fact that some would think it is okay is really revealing about what kind of fellows are standing behind pulpits these days.
If I preach Peter's message verbatim, as found in Acts, is that plagerism? Vance Havner asked, "What do you call a preacher's message when he never uses anyone elses material"? His dry-witted reply was, "Dull".
Well, if you give the impression that you made it all up and we're going by verbal inspiration I'd say you're plagiarizing off God!
OK, But wouldn't that be LYING!
Oh... Wise guy, eh!?!
If using another's sermon verbatim, that would be plagarism... But using it as a commentary, or pulling an illustration and giving credit, I don't think it is..
Or even using the outline.. especially if it is an exegetical sermon... after all the outline should be in Scripture anyways...
I thank all who have contributed to the sermon outline thread.. While I may never use one, I have certainly gained some insight just reading them...
One of my hobbies... (Yeah I'm weird) is listening to a sermon and picking it apart to find the outlines...
Remember disecting frogs in Biology??
I liked that also!
I'm so surprised that 67% say this is not plagiarizing!
Of course, I am wondering if the question means using the whole sermon and/or the main idea of the sermon without proper attribution.
I think it's okay to refer to another sermon and point out some good things from it if you give proper credit, but a pastor using another's sermon, especially without giving credit, is not doing what he should do, imo.
Using a sermon by Paul or Peter in the Bible is not plagiarizing because if you use it, I would assume the pastor is exegeting it or applying it in some way. That's not the same as giving it as though it's his.
I hope that 67% does not include pastors!
WOW, very few call me wise....
Well.. I think you were the first..
The late, great Dr. Adrian Rogers always said
"If my bullets fit in your gun---load 'um and shoot!!"
I've also heard Adrian Rogers condemn the practice of copying sermons too. He was not a fan of word for word use of some other fellow's sermon.
Again, using a outline or a quote, etc.. is quite different than buying your sermon manuscript off the internet and passing it off as your own brilliant masterpiece.