Israel and Hamas

Discussion in '2006 Archive' started by Soulman, May 4, 2006.

  1. Soulman

    Soulman
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    Should we sit around while Hamas attempts to undermine Israel? They don't want to recognize her. If you read history anyone can see that the Palistinians have no right to the land at all. I don't think Israel should give up one more acre of their land. If Hamas doesn't back off I wouldn't blame Israel if they went all out and wiped THEM off the map of existance. I beleive these are truly the last days.

    As Christians we should speak out in support of Israel! As a nation we should do everything in our power to undermine Hamas. We should strand with God's nation of Israel!
     
  2. Joseph_Botwinick

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    I support Israel. I also support working for a Palestinian State through reciprocity and accountability (something which has never been tried). I don't support the idea of wiping out the Palestinians, several of whom are Christians.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  3. Eliyahu

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    Hamas means Violence ( Gen 6:11)
    Any compromise with such people will turn out to collapse.
    God has given the land of Israel to the children of Israel.
     
  4. Joseph_Botwinick

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    I never said we should compromise with Hamas. Neither should we advocate wiping out all Palestinians, many of whom are Christians.

    Next time, actually try reading what I wrote before you respond.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  5. Soulman

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    --------------------------------------------------

    Quote: Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:

    I support Israel. I also support working for a Palestinian State through reciprocity and accountability (something which has never been tried). I don't support the idea of wiping out the Palestinians, several of whom are Christians.
    --------------------------------------------------
    Each and every time Israel has given into the Palestinian demands at the negotiating table it was never good enough. The Palestinians want all or nothing. They are not interested in sharing the land under any circumstances. They have never recognized Israel and have always favored wiping them out. (Many of whom are christians)

    Now with Hamas in charge things can only get more tense for Israel. If it comes down to the survival of Israel or the Palestinian culture, we should stand with Israel as they truly want peace. They have a right to their land while the Palestinians are merely a cancer. They NEVER have nor now have a right to the land they are on.

    If the Palestinians are never going to recognize Israel and continue doing everything in it's power to kill jews then perhaps sending them to wander in the world wouldn't be such a bad idea.
     
  6. Joseph_Botwinick

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    1. Do you know what the word reciprocity means? Look it up and you will see that I am not anywhere close to endorsing compromise and yet another land for peace hoax.

    2. Not all Palestinians are a Cancer. Some of them are your Christian brothers and sisters. What a hateful thing for you to proclaim.

    3. I never said we shouldn't stand with Israel.

    4. Yes, the majority of Israelis do want peace, which is part of the reason the majority of them favored the Gaza pullout and voted for Kadima. No, I don't think that simply giving the Palestinians land is going to achieve peace for them. But also, there are Israelis who do not want peace and who have as much hate in their hearts for all Palestinians as you seem to have. These folks make up groups such as Kahane Chai, have murdered their own prime minister in the past, and are a blight to the state of Israel.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  7. Soulman

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    First of all Joseph, I do not HATE the Palestinian people. And of course there are those that do not agree with their government. What I do hate is the constant struggle Israel has had with the Palestinian people as a whole.I hate their philosophy of anti semetisim. I hate Hamas which the good people you keep talking about elected.

    The Palestinians don't want a State through reciprocity and accountability as you suggest. That would mean a working relationship. Until the Palestinians are willing to recognize Israel's existance this idea cannot occur. So, I believe they will continue to try and take Israel an acre at a time until they gain the advantage. I don't believe it will ever happen but I think it is their aim.

    Once again, I do not hate the people. I hate the evil venom aimed at God's people. If the Palestinians want to continue electing government officials bent on destroying Israel they should be forced out of the territory. Their philosophy and intolerance is a cancer. Hamas is evil.
     
  8. Joseph_Botwinick

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    1. As Netanyahu once said, "If they give, they will get. If they don't, they won't". Those were the words of reciprocity. Too bad they were never put into action. They have never really been held accountable for their actions or lack thereof. Israel keeps giving them land and hoping for the best. Reciprocity does not rely on the other parties desire to work. It seeks to change their desires through political pressure and accountability.

    2. When you called them all a cancer, including many whom are your Christian brothers and sisters, I think you showed otherwise that you do, in fact, hate the Palestinians. But if you want to rethink your statement now, I am more than willing to accept your retraction:

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  9. LadyEagle

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    Many Christian Palestinians are suffering under the reign of HAMAS, the PLO, and other islamic dominated governments and will continue to do so as long as islamists are in power.
     
  10. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Many Palestinians of all religious backgrounds have suffered for a long time under the tyranny of Hamas and other terrorist organizations. I agree, LE. They are to be pitied and prayed for, not called cancers.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  11. Soulman

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    Joseph,
    Hang on the one thing(Cancer) and run with it. Perhaps I didn't articulate my answer well enough for you. It's like saying I hate catholics which I don't. I hate Catholicisim. I don't hate the palestinians. I hate what they stand for. Their government is in the grips of Satan himself and is bent on destroying God's people. As long as the people are ELECTING corrupt leaders, the SYSTEM is and will remain a cancer in the land. I don't apologize for taking that stand.

    What stopped President Bush from naming them in the axis of evil? They certainly qualified.

    There are christians being exploited in every society. I don't make light of that. I don't hate people. I hate any governmental system that openly or privately persecutes christians or Jews'. God openly curses them that do so.
     
  12. Joseph_Botwinick

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    1. You didn't say that you hated what the Palestinians stood for. You called them a cancer...some of whom are your brothers and sisters in Christ, and in the next breath, you proclaimed all of Israel as the people of God, whom deny Jesus as Messiah. I sensed some hatred on your part towards the Palestinians and pointed it out. You got defensive. Sorry to hear that.

    2. I hate any governmental system that openly or provately persecutes anyone of any faith.

    3. Jews are not the people of God. Christians are. Those who deny Christ are totally depraved lost folks just like everyone else who is lost.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  13. Soulman

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    --------------------------------------------------Quote:
    You didn't say that you hated what the Palestinians stood for. You called them a cancer...some of whom are your brothers and sisters in Christ, and in the next breath, you proclaimed all of Israel as the people of God, whom deny Jesus as Messiah. I sensed some hatred on your part towards the Palestinians and pointed it out. You got defensive. Sorry to hear that.
    -------------------------------------------------

    Ok Joseph! Avoid the entire point of the thread to exploit that I hate palestinians! If thats what ya think, run with it my friend. I have been on and off this board for a while and you sir are a very difficult person to get along with. You don't seem to play well with others. You argue the insigfnificant to the point of crippling a thread. Even if the offending party admits to you they may not have explained something clearly, and trys to explain himself so that even you can understand, you continue to beat the dead horse into oblivion. Gongratulations! You are a very wise man!!

    By the way! Although they go to hell just like everyone else unsaved, the Jews ARE still God's people. He will judge people and nations by how they treat the jews.
     
  14. Joseph_Botwinick

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    The Church is God's people. Any Jew who rejects Christ is not.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  15. Soulman

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    Show me in scripture where the Jews' are not Gods' people.
     
  16. Joseph_Botwinick

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    I think it has something to do with rejecting Christ as the Messiah, unless you believe in the Universalist theology.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  17. LadyEagle

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    My Bible says they are the Apple of God's Eye.
     
  18. Eliyahu

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    Israel is under special care of God, and someday will come when they repent nationwidely, but we have to work for it as the Disciples endeavored for the gentiles.

    We have very good Palestinian family in our church. If Palestinian accept Jesus, they can live there peacefully. But otherwise, it is not the will of God that they live there.

    If Israelites obey the Malach ( Special Envoy) mentioned in Ex 23:20-23, they could have expelled all the 7 tribes of Canaanites, and they should know that the Special Envoy was Pre-Incarnate Jesus Christ.
     
  19. Soulman

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    Thanks LadyEagle and Eliyahu,
    Good to have the thread back on track. How do you think Israel should handle Hamas. Should they root them out as we are attempting to do with Bin Laden and the gang? Or should they hold fast and continue seeking the worlds approval, hoping for the best?

    Israel has a military for a reason and it is biblical for them to defend themselves. Should they flex their muscle and irradicate the true cancer?(Hamas)
     

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