Israel halts airstrikes for 48 hours

Discussion in 'Politics' started by El_Guero, Jul 30, 2006.

  1. El_Guero

    El_Guero
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    Israel halts airstrikes for 48 hours - finally a real military reaction

    It is about time that the IDF pulled back off of the civilians. A real military would have thought of that from the beginning. In a couple of weeks, they have racked up a really bad civilian body count.

    Killing civilians does not work. It always gives the temporary perception of conquest, but the long term resistance level of the opposing armed forces goes way up - shown in studies of WW2. That is one of the reasons that the USA has focused on reduction of 'collateral damage'.

    Let us keep their leadership in prayer. If they want peace, then they will need to lower the amount of civilian casualties.
     
  2. Forever settled in heaven

    Forever settled in heaven
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    apparently, they might be able to coming smelling like a rose after all, if this report's true!

    the blame, wldja know, goes to ... the Hezbollah!

     
  3. Martin

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    Israel has done what they can to avoid civilian deaths. However when you are fighting in urban areas where people live civilian deaths are not avoidable. Hezbollah, and groups like it, hide behind the civilian populations. However Israel cannot, and should not, stop going after Hezbollah just because they hide behind civilians. Terrorists cannot be allowed to operate just because we are afraid of civilian deaths.

    Hezbollah got what it wanted, its purposes in hiding in civilian populations was achieved yesterday. Israel has agreed to a pause in the bombing, giving Hezbollah fighters time to regroup (etc), and the United Nations has condemned Israel and is calling for a end to the fighting (a end with no real solution).

    Israel has made a massive mistake by agreeing to this fake cease fire. They should never listen to the United Nations or the United States because neither have Israel's best interests in mind.

    Btw the level of hypocrisy in the media, on the Arab street, and in the United Nations is amazing. Where was all their "outrage" about civilian deaths when Hamas (etc) was sending murderers into Israel to blow themselves up in resturants, on city buses, at bus stops, at wedding parties, in a hotel lobby in Jordan? Where was all their outrage when Saddam Hussein murdered thousands of Iraqi civilians? The answer is that they had no outrage. The "outrage" you see in the media, on the Arab street, at the United Nations, etc, is fed by a anti-semitic, anti-Christian, anti-Israel, anti-American mindset. It is a fake outrage. Indeed it is an evil outrage.
     
    #3 Martin, Jul 31, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 31, 2006
  4. LadyEagle

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    Hezbollah wins in the world view by death of Israeli citizens. Hezbollah wins in the world view by death of Lebanese citizens. Now polling indicates 82% of the Lebanese public is pro-Hezbollah and the Prime Minister of Lebanon yesterday praised Hezbollah. Yet our tax dollars will be going to rebuild this country which will end up being yet another Islamic nation under Sharia law when all is said and done. (Just like Iraq, just like Afghanistan)

    When children die in Lebanon, Israel doesn't dance in the streets - Israel mourns and apologizes. When children die in Israel, Lebanese and Palestinians dance in the streets and have a celebration.

    I don't know what the big deal is. Hezbollah and Palestinian jihadists want their children to die anyway for the "cause."

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Forever settled in heaven

    Forever settled in heaven
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    u're right, it's a "fake cease fire" indeed--apparently the attacks have started again, well before the end of the promised 48 hrs ...

    http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&u=/ap/20060731/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_israel_623



    o yeah, the outrage n the hypocrisy. hasn't anyone seen them on both sides of the cage? or shd one side be continually demonised n the other, um, continually beatified?

    speaking of murderers, do they cross the border in only 1 direction? where was the outrage when Saddam got installed by a certain U.S. President? where the handwringing over civilian deaths in Afghanistan n Iraq (altho mysteriously none in the homelands of the 9-11 attackers)? n speaking of the media, aren't there stations specialising in just the opposite viewpt?

    seems we might be back to the old groupthink again. :cool:
     
  6. Forever settled in heaven

    Forever settled in heaven
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    um, what's "wins the world view"?

    winning the sympathy of the world, possibly?

    but doesn't it work the same way, when the media exposes n condemns the bomb killings in Jerusalem, London, Madrid, n other places?

    or r u saying the world condones one n condemns the other?
     
  7. LadyEagle

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    I am saying the world condemns whatever Israel does and throws their sympathy behind Hezbollah and Hamas, Palestinian Jihad, and the other groups (which are all related in ideology) and makes Israel out to be the bad guy because of longstanding hatred of the Jews. Like your hero Robert Fisk. I've seen Robert Fisks posts on Arab web sites right after 09/11 and he had NOTHING positive to say about either Israel or the USA.

    Also, the fact that these subhumans train their children to be "shahids" to "die" with bomb suits and then wail and moan because their children are killed by Israeli bombs is the height of hypocrisy. Apparently, in their mindset, the death of their children only counts when that child dies killing Jews. Then they aren't crying, they are happy that they donated their child to the "cause." It's positively sickening.
     
    #7 LadyEagle, Jul 31, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 31, 2006
  8. Forever settled in heaven

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    i'm not so sure that the reason for world reaction is "longstanding hatred of the Jews." it doesn't quite explain a similar reaction fr the Jews themselves! wld u characterise urself as a Robert Fisk (my "hero" :tongue3:) in reverse--unable to say anything positive abt the rest of the world's opinion?

    speaking of sickening, here's an interesting account n POV by a Jewish eyewitness of what goes on in the subhuman cage:

    http://www.yeshgvul.org/articles_e.asp?id=424d22d3e97c935c81a31fe9b7021689

    check out the rest of the testimony at the website. is it more excusable if educated n US-armed adults, rather than bomb-strapped children, do the killing?

    sadly, it seems like some people living on the other side of the world wld rather deny the other reality.
     
    #8 Forever settled in heaven, Jul 31, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 31, 2006
  9. LadyEagle

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    What you are failing to recognize is that Hezbollah started this latest round. And yes, there are liberal Jews who hate their heritage and have sided with Hezbollah (I can think of one American Jew attorney who represents them, for instance), but the fact is, Israel only wants to live in peace. The Palestinians and Lebanese (Hamas, Hezbollah, PIJ, PA, etc) do not want to live in peace - they want to exterminate the Jews which they have publicly stated over and over and over ad nauseum.

    Another thing, you claim some of us here have not examined both sides of the issue. How do you know this? Because we have come to the conclusions we have come to does not mean we have blindly gone down some alley or rabbit trail without examining both sides of the issue. In fact, that is quite the opposite. I usually give people the benefit of the doubt until they prove by their actions otherwise. Case in point: Voting for GW Bush in the first election. (not meaning to derail this thread)

    Also, if you see how the UN handles this current situation, you will see that my assessment of the world throwing their weight against Israel and sympathizing with the other side is the correct analysis. In fact, it was only the US that vetoed the UN security council agenda the other day.

    Meaning that you live where?
     
  10. Martin

    Martin
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    ==Israel made the right move by not giving the terrorists a chance to regroup (via the UNs "cease" fire). I was glad to hear that Israel had restarted its air campaign.


    ==Terrorists should never be "beatified". These people are murderers who simply want Israel gone. They will accept no cease fire, they will accept no peace. Therefore those who want peace, security, and freedom have to confront the enemies of those things (when it must be done). Sometimes that means the use of military and/or police force. That is what Israel is doing. Israel is confronting the enemies of peace.

    ==What American president "installed" Saddam? Name, evidence.


    ==Ok. One of the basic facts of urban warfare is that civilians will die. There is no way around that. None. When we fight a war in a city or a town where people live innocent people will get hurt and killed. It is sad, it is something that the United States and Israel try to avoid. However the terrorists hide in residential areas, schools, religious buildings, etc. We cannot let them hide. We cannot let them dig in and get stronger, we have to go after them even in those areas. We drop warning notes telling civilians to leave (thus telling the terrorists what we are going to do) we use computer guided bombs they most of the time hit their target head on, our military even calculates how the bomb should hit the building so surrounding civilian buildings receive as little damage as possible. However, with all of that done, civilian deaths are not avoidable. Unless you are willing to allow the terrorists to dig in, get stronger, and fire on people from those areas we must go after them in those areas. The terrorists have no problem willfully targeting innocent civilians in resturants, school buses, hotel lobbies, and the like. Israel, the US, and other countries, try their best to avoid civilian deaths (etc). However when fighting in a urban area it is not possible to avoid civilian injury and death 100%.

    That is a basic fact of reality.

    ==U, the US attacked the country where Bin Laden (etc) was based. I don't know who else should have been targeted. They went after those who were behind the attacks of 9/11.

    ==Anyone who knows me will tell you that I am no "groupthink" person. I can be, sometimes, the thorn that sticks in the side of the teacher, author, etc. Everything I say comes from my own personal study, reading, and pontifications. If you don't agree with me I have no problem with that. However you should not resort to those type of remarks simply because you disagree with someone.
     
  11. El_Guero

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    Almost sounds like some folk support killing civilians. That sounds like a hezbolah policy.

    As a Christian, I pray that God will comfort those that have lost their loved ones, Christians especially, Jews and Muslims.
     
  12. El_Guero

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    I also pray that God will use the evil of men to bring more people to worshipping His Son, my Lord and Savior - Jesus the Christ.
     
  13. KenH

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    I think this was a terrible idea by the Israeli government and I am glad to see that they are hitting back at Hezbollah since Hezbollah obviously has not observed any halt to their rocket launches.

    I am also glad that it looks like Israel is fixing to have a major ground assault into southern Lebanon as I just received a breaking news report email from CNN that states:

    "Israel plans to call up thousands more reservists after Cabinet approved expanding ground war in Lebanon, Reuters reports quoting Israel Radio."

    May Hezbollah soon end up in the dustbin of history where it belongs.


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  14. LadyEagle

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    El_Guero, it sounds like the liberal press/Hezbollah/Arabic TV propaganda has gotten to ya.

    Shall we review the facts?

    Here's a question and a review of the facts:

    A) How do we know it was an Israeli missile that caused the death of these civilians? Perhaps an Israeli missile that caused the initial blast, but perhaps the blast set off stored up munitions which brought the building down and caused the civilian casualties.

    B) Israel has released video which showed rockets being fired from the same area.

    C) Israel has dropped leaflets telling the civilians to leave.

    D) There are civilian casualties in war.

    E) Hezbollah started this war.

    F) Hezbollah uses human shields. That's their MO. Do you think for one instant Hezbollah cares about civililan casualties? If anybody thinks Hezbollah really cares about civilian casualties, then your perception flies in the face of historical facts.

    G) Hezbollah has fired over 2000 missiles into Northern Israel and there is no international outrage over the innocent civilians and children who have been killed and maimed.

    H) Hezbollah rockets are packed with pellets so as to inflict as much collateral human damage, maiming innocent civilians, as possible. Same with their homicide bombers.

    I) Muslims don't need anything to be outraged over because they are always outraged about something.

    J) Again today, Israel offered to cease air strikes to allow humanitarian aid to Southern Lebanon and did so. Hezbollah continued firing rockets/missiles into Israel instead of ceasing hostilities for the window of humanitarian aid to these civilians they supposedly care about.

    K) As I pointed out before, jihadists WANT their children to be shahids and so-called martyrs for the cause. They teach their kids to blow themselves up. So to boohoo because their children are dead is very hypocritical.

    That's all I can think of right off the top of my head, but I'm sure someone else can add more.

    I am not buying into the big sympathy/guilt trip the world is trying to impose upon Israel. Israel never asked for this, it was shoved into their face by the aggressors/muslim jihad groups.

    Does anyone here feel sorry for the innocent Jewish children who have been buried and maimed from terrorist acts through the years?

    Like I said in another thread, if CNN and the liberal press had been working so hard with their agenda back in WW2, we'd all be speaking German right now. Innocent civilians die during war. That's just a fact.
     
  15. LadyEagle

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  16. El_Guero

    El_Guero
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    LE

    Just to make one clear point, if Hezbollah could get to me - you would have been long dead.
     
  17. El_Guero

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    For the record - I hate terrorists. Jewish, Arab, & yes even american. What is going on is what I told you to be in prayer about several weeks back.

    This will be another jewish slaughter. Because of really bad planning.

    Murder is wrong. Killing combatants is not a problem for me. But, telling civilians to get out or die before you can even call up your own troops is pure propaganda. Civilians cannot move faster than troops. Expecting civilians to move faster than you can call up your army is ludicrous.

    I told you that this was a politically motivated rush job. 3 weeks later they are just now calling up the troops they needed at 'd-day minus 2'. And if they keep it up, they will pull Syria into the conflict. From what is reported, I do not think that will happen on purpose - again really, really bad planning. They are on the brink of accidental bringing in Syria. And as much problems as they are having with hezbolla this time - they don't want to be taking on terrorist cells in their supply lines and a real army.

    And if Syria waits until the IDF has placed themselves onto the 'horns of the dilemma', you will see more jews die than you could possibly imagine.

    So if you really believe that the IDF is only accidental doing this, then you need to start praying that the accidents start stopping before a bunch of your boys die.
     
    #17 El_Guero, Jul 31, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 31, 2006
  18. El_Guero

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    You really need to start praying that the accidents start stopping before a bunch of jewish boys and girls die.

    Or do you really want to see a bunch of jews die? You wouldn't be the first that really deep down hated them, but claimed to like them in public.

    Me personally, I know they are God's chosen race, but I also know that God has always punished them when they sin - murder is sin. I am praying that they step down from their killing of civilians before they make God mad. I do not want to see jewish boys and girls die, just because a politician made a rash decision. I do not want to see one more die. But for every 3 hezbolla and 7 civilians that the jews kill, the hezbolla will kill one jew.

    So i guess the real question is, "Do you value human life? Do you really value the lives of Jews?"

    Then pray.
     
  19. El_Guero

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    I am not against stopping Hezbollah, but if the Jews wanted to stop Hezbollah, they should have called up their troops 4 weeks ago. I was a soldier (and an NCO) for too long to believe that this was a military operation. This was a politically motivated assault.

    Right, wrong or indifferent, if anyone wants peace you have got to get politics out of the war room and slow down the killing of civilians just to get them out of the way.

     
  20. Martin

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    ==What? Are we living in two different worlds or something? Israel has done what it can to avoid civilian deaths (etc). However, as I explained yesterday in a reply in this thread, civilian deaths are not 100% avoidable in urban warfare. That truth multiplies when the enemy, in this case the terrorists from Hezbollah are hiding in civilian areas and firing rockets into Israel from those civilian areas. Israel, nor any country, can or should sit back and do nothing about that. Those terrorists have to be dealt with and that is what Israel is doing.

    I doubt God will be angry with Israel for defending itself against evil doers (Rom 13:1-5). After all Israel is defending itself against people who willfully target and attack innocent civilians. Hezbollah and Hamas do it in Israel and groups like that attack civilians in Iraq and other places around the world.

    ==Israel is not required to warn civilians to leave the area. That is done to get innocent people out of the way and yes it is done to scare them (so they will leave). By doing this Israel gives away their next move.

    ==Israel will have no problem doing away with Syria's army if Syria gets involved. Keep in mind that Israel has dealt with Arab armies before and has come out the victor. Besides by all accounts that I have seen Syria's army is not the best in the region. My guess is that Syria is trying to get the attacks on Hezbollah locations to stop.

    ==Nobody here supports killing civilians. What we realize is that in urban warfare, where the terrorists are using civilians as cover, civilians will die. That is no reason to allow the terrorists to dig in and continue their attack against Israel with no response (and thus to get stronger). Israel has to go after them. It is sad that innocent civilians will die and suffer but that is part of living in a sinful world where there is the reality of, and sometimes the need for war.
     

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